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Is Vince Young delusional?; OT - He's an "elite" quarterback
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 20 2011, 11:50 AM (374 Views)
enemydeservesnomercy Jan 20 2011, 02:22 PM Post #16
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obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:21 PM
enemydeservesnomercy
Jan 20 2011, 02:15 PM
crveech
Jan 20 2011, 02:12 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:08 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 01:45 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 01:40 PM
As of right now, I would put him 2nd behind Brady.
lol
Why is that funny?

You would put Big Ben in front of Manning?
...they were talking about this on the radio yesterday...Rapistberger might get 3 SuperBowls before he is 30 years old...he is also 9-2 in the playoffs right now...of course the Steelers defense gets all of the credit but their defense has always been good and since they got Rapistberger the team has begun to win SuperBowls...they made some great points yesterday...
If you're talking about ESPN radio, I heard it as well. I've heard that discussion thrown out there several times this year.

It's nice to know that OHB produces at least one other person that isn't a Colts/Peyton Manning homer ;)
B)
"The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana."
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dçamden03 Jan 20 2011, 02:24 PM Post #17
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Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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obatskii Jan 20 2011, 02:31 PM Post #18
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dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:24 PM
Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
Where would you put Ben?
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dçamden03 Jan 20 2011, 02:33 PM Post #19
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Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
Where would you put Ben?
4th or 5th.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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enemydeservesnomercy Jan 20 2011, 02:45 PM Post #20
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...okay, what are we truly debating?...

...are we saying guys like Aaron Rodgers, Matt Ryan, and Joe Flacco are not "elite"?...

...if we are, then i guess we are saying that Brady, Rapistberger, Manning, etc. would make the Packers, Falcons, Ravens, etc, better...

...i'm confused...
"The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana."
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obatskii Jan 20 2011, 02:54 PM Post #21
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dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:33 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:31 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:24 PM
Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
Where would you put Ben?
4th or 5th.
Brees 3rd??

And who's 4th if Big Ben isn't?
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enemydeservesnomercy Jan 20 2011, 03:02 PM Post #22
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...also, since the quarterbacks left in the playoffs are: Rapistberger, Sanchez, Rodgers, and Cutler; i guess we are saying that the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl...or if Rodgers is elite then it will be the Steelers vs. the Packers...

...or...

...if the Jets or Bears win the Super Bowl then we are saying you don't need an elite qb to win the Super Bowl...

...isn't winning the Super Bowl the entire point of an NFL team's season?...so if an NFL team can win the Super Bowl without an elite qb, then i don't give a fuck about having one...

"The possibilities of basketball as seen here were a revelation to me. Basketball may have been invented in Massachusetts, but it was made for Indiana."
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crveech Jan 20 2011, 03:28 PM Post #23
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Rodgers could easily go down as an elite qb. He has carried the Packers' offense on his back all season long with no running game to help him. I hope we see a Packers/Steelers Super Bowl. That would be good.
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BTown11 Jan 20 2011, 03:55 PM Post #24
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lalalallalalalalalalala

who cares?

lallalalalalalalalalala
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dçamden03 Jan 20 2011, 05:15 PM Post #25
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Jan 20 2011, 02:33 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:31 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:24 PM
Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
Where would you put Ben?
4th or 5th.
Brees 3rd??

And who's 4th if Big Ben isn't?
Manning/Brady at the top. Brees 3, Rodgers and Roethlisberger are 4/5.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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Maker13 Jan 20 2011, 06:56 PM Post #26
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enemydeservesnomercy
Jan 20 2011, 03:02 PM
...also, since the quarterbacks left in the playoffs are: Rapistberger, Sanchez, Rodgers, and Cutler; i guess we are saying that the Steelers are going to win the Super Bowl...or if Rodgers is elite then it will be the Steelers vs. the Packers...

...or...

...if the Jets or Bears win the Super Bowl then we are saying you don't need an elite qb to win the Super Bowl...

...isn't winning the Super Bowl the entire point of an NFL team's season?...so if an NFL team can win the Super Bowl without an elite qb, then i don't give a fuck about having one...

Trent fucking Dilfer. Next question.
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hoosierinhogville Jan 20 2011, 08:07 PM Post #27
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enemydeservesnomercy
Jan 20 2011, 02:15 PM
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Jan 20 2011, 02:12 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:08 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 01:45 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 01:40 PM
As of right now, I would put him 2nd behind Brady.
lol
Why is that funny?

You would put Big Ben in front of Manning?
...they were talking about this on the radio yesterday...Rapistberger might get 3 SuperBowls before he is 30 years old...he is also 9-2 in the playoffs right now...of course the Steelers defense gets all of the credit but their defense has always been good and since they got Rapistberger the team has begun to win SuperBowls...they made some great points yesterday...
Actually there was a period of a few years before Ben got there that the Steelers defense was middle of the pack. Before that, they were very good, but had had a series of bad QB's and a washed up Jerome Bettis, which would in part explain why they were losing despite having a good defense.
This is why i think it is silly to use SB wins as an indicator of who is a better QB. According to Football Outsiders team defense rankings, the Steelers have had an average of the 4th best defense since Ben has been a Steeler. The Colts on the other hand have averaged 11th. You put Manning on the steelers, and he has at least 2 rings and a much better playoff record.
Also food for thought, according to Football outsiders rankings, the two years the Steelers won the Superbowl with Ben the defense was ranked 3rd and first. this year they are ranked #1. The year Peyton won, he won despite his defense which was ranked 25th.
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hoosierinhogville Jan 20 2011, 08:09 PM Post #28
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Also FWIW, i would say Peyton and Brady 1a and 1b, then Brees, then Ben.
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Mr Gray Jan 20 2011, 08:10 PM Post #29
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dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 05:15 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:54 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:33 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:31 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 02:24 PM
Impressive that one guy can single handedly win Super Bowls and playoff games by himself.
Where would you put Ben?
4th or 5th.
Brees 3rd??

And who's 4th if Big Ben isn't?
Manning/Brady at the top. Brees 3, Rodgers and Roethlisberger are 4/5.
Rodgers is good, but without a Super Bowl, I don't think you can even consider him as being above Rothlisberger. I would struggle to put Rodgers above Rivers right now to be honest with you.....they are sort of a toss up, and I think Rivers had a better year statistically.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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obatskii Jan 20 2011, 08:13 PM Post #30
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hoosierinhogville
Jan 20 2011, 08:07 PM
enemydeservesnomercy
Jan 20 2011, 02:15 PM
crveech
Jan 20 2011, 02:12 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 02:08 PM
dçamden03
Jan 20 2011, 01:45 PM
obatskii
Jan 20 2011, 01:40 PM
As of right now, I would put him 2nd behind Brady.
lol
Why is that funny?

You would put Big Ben in front of Manning?
...they were talking about this on the radio yesterday...Rapistberger might get 3 SuperBowls before he is 30 years old...he is also 9-2 in the playoffs right now...of course the Steelers defense gets all of the credit but their defense has always been good and since they got Rapistberger the team has begun to win SuperBowls...they made some great points yesterday...
Actually there was a period of a few years before Ben got there that the Steelers defense was middle of the pack. Before that, they were very good, but had had a series of bad QB's and a washed up Jerome Bettis, which would in part explain why they were losing despite having a good defense.
This is why i think it is silly to use SB wins as an indicator of who is a better QB. According to Football Outsiders team defense rankings, the Steelers have had an average of the 4th best defense since Ben has been a Steeler. The Colts on the other hand have averaged 11th. You put Manning on the steelers, and he has at least 2 rings and a much better playoff record.
Also food for thought, according to Football outsiders rankings, the two years the Steelers won the Superbowl with Ben the defense was ranked 3rd and first. this year they are ranked #1. The year Peyton won, he won despite his defense which was ranked 25th.
I think it's interesting that the Colts D has been that good on average over these years, especially considering most of their fans will use that as an excuse as to why he hasn't won more.

No doubt Big Ben has had good to great defenses throughout his career. However, when he needs to make a big throw at a pivotal moment, he comes through like very few others that I've ever seen.

Also, Peyton could have 3 rings with the Steelers, and he could have none. There's no way to say that he would have had at least an "X" number of SB trophies playing for a different team.

Also, I think you need to look at everything when comparing QBs. Like you said, you can't just look at SB wins. At the same time, you can't just look at stats. For example Peyton plays his games in a dome and Ben plays his at Heinz Field with well below average weather conditions.
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