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Pujols vs. Fielder; Who's your man?
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Topic Started: Aug 10 2011, 01:13 PM (942 Views)
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IUCOLTFAN
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Aug 11 2011, 02:05 PM
Post #46
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Obat's hatred of the Cardinals is skewing his vision on this one. This is an idiotic discussion. Hell if the Brewers could unload Fielder and pick up Pujols they'd do it in a minute.......anyone who says different is not playing with a full deck
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:06 PM
Post #47
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- dreachon
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- hoosierinhogville
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- obatskii
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I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO. Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important.
What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
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IUCOLTFAN
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Aug 11 2011, 02:08 PM
Post #48
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:facepalm:
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dreachon
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Aug 11 2011, 02:10 PM
Post #49
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:06 PM
- dreachon
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- obatskii
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- hoosierinhogville
- Aug 11 2011, 01:23 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 12:07 PM
I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year. No, he isn't.
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IUCOLTFAN
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Aug 11 2011, 02:11 PM
Post #50
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Obat
Throwing contracts aside, if the Brewers were offered Pujols for Fielder in a straight up trade what do you think they would do?
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dreachon
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Aug 11 2011, 02:13 PM
Post #51
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My list of 1st basemen I would take RIGHT NOW.
1) Pujols 2) Cabrera 3) Gonzalez 4) Votto 5) Tex 6) Fielder 7) Howard
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:15 PM
Post #52
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- dreachon
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- obatskii
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- hoosierinhogville
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- obatskii
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I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
No, he isn't. I know you're being serious, so I won't ask that, but....
How in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Albert has a few more runs and 1 more HR. Prince has substantial leads in RBI, BA, SLB, OPS, OBP, and for you sabermetrics nerds, WAR.
Edited by obatskii, Aug 11 2011, 02:18 PM.
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:17 PM
Post #53
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- IUCOLTFAN
- Aug 11 2011, 02:11 PM
Obat
Throwing contracts aside, if the Brewers were offered Pujols for Fielder in a straight up trade what do you think they would do? They should take Pujols.
That has nothing to do with anything I've said though. The debate has been on this year's play and contract signings after the year.
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dreachon
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Aug 11 2011, 02:21 PM
Post #54
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:15 PM
- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 02:10 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:06 PM
- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 01:50 PM
- obatskii
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- hoosierinhogville
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 12:07 PM
I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
No, he isn't.
I know you're being serious, so I won't ask that, but.... How in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Albert has a few more runs and 1 more HR. Prince has substantial leads in RBI, BA, SLB, OPS, OBP, and for you sabermetrics nerds, WAR. You've already mentioned that Pujols has been on the DL, so saying something like Prince has more RBIs (a stat highly dependent on who hits in front of you) doesn't resonate with me.
Pujols came back 6 weeks early from a broken wrist and has continued to hit. Somehow, that fact knocks him down a peg in your mind, when in mine it amazes me. He's better defensively. He's a better baserunner. And yes, he's still a better hitter.
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:36 PM
Post #55
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- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 02:21 PM
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- dreachon
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- obatskii
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- obatskii
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I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
No, he isn't.
I know you're being serious, so I won't ask that, but.... How in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Albert has a few more runs and 1 more HR. Prince has substantial leads in RBI, BA, SLB, OPS, OBP, and for you sabermetrics nerds, WAR.
You've already mentioned that Pujols has been on the DL, so saying something like Prince has more RBIs (a stat highly dependent on who hits in front of you) doesn't resonate with me. Pujols came back 6 weeks early from a broken wrist and has continued to hit. Somehow, that fact knocks him down a peg in your mind, when in mine it amazes me. He's better defensively. He's a better baserunner. And yes, he's still a better hitter. I actually agree on the RBI comment. I'm glad you picked that one out and flew over the other 5 statistics I presented you.
Pujols has 7 errors at first and 3 at 3rd while Fielder has 11 errors at first. Pujols is a better baserunner, but he only has 6 steals. He's not exactly Michael Bourn out there. He also leads the league in GIDP.
When did I ever say that knocked him down a peg? Don't put words in my mouth. As far as the statistics go, the injury has had very little effect. He hasn't hit any better or any worse since the injury. He was batting .279 before and now he's at .277. He is having a sub-par year with or without that injury.
I don't see how anyone, Cardinals fan or not, could look at the statistics this year and think Albert has been a better hitter. That's mind-boggling to me.
Edited by obatskii, Aug 11 2011, 02:37 PM.
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"They say it takes a village to raise a family. Well, it took a nation to rebuild a program. THANK YOU HOOSIER NATION!" -Tom Crean
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IUCOLTFAN
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Aug 11 2011, 02:45 PM
Post #56
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Coach
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:36 PM
- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 02:21 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:15 PM
- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 02:10 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:06 PM
- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 01:50 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 01:33 PM
- hoosierinhogville
- Aug 11 2011, 01:23 PM
- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 12:07 PM
I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
No, he isn't.
I know you're being serious, so I won't ask that, but.... How in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Albert has a few more runs and 1 more HR. Prince has substantial leads in RBI, BA, SLB, OPS, OBP, and for you sabermetrics nerds, WAR.
You've already mentioned that Pujols has been on the DL, so saying something like Prince has more RBIs (a stat highly dependent on who hits in front of you) doesn't resonate with me. Pujols came back 6 weeks early from a broken wrist and has continued to hit. Somehow, that fact knocks him down a peg in your mind, when in mine it amazes me. He's better defensively. He's a better baserunner. And yes, he's still a better hitter.
I actually agree on the RBI comment. I'm glad you picked that one out and flew over the other 5 statistics I presented you. Pujols has 7 errors at first and 3 at 3rd while Fielder has 11 errors at first. Pujols is a better baserunner, but he only has 6 steals. He's not exactly Michael Bourn out there. He also leads the league in GIDP. When did I ever say that knocked him down a peg? Don't put words in my mouth. As far as the statistics go, the injury has had very little effect. He hasn't hit any better or any worse since the injury. He was batting .279 before and now he's at .277. He is having a sub-par year with or without that injury. I don't see how anyone, Cardinals fan or not, could look at the statistics this year and think Albert has been a better hitter. That's mind-boggling to me. Steals?
Have you ever watched Pujols play the game? You basing your thoughts on Alberts "worst" year of his career is what is mind-boggling.
Pujols started slow this season. Holiday was out for a stretch, Rasmus underperformed, They've lacked a good leadoff hitter, no real clear cut 2-hole hitter............what exactly do you want from the guy.
He's having a down year and is still better than Uggla and Heyward combined. :D
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dreachon
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Aug 11 2011, 02:48 PM
Post #57
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So I guess you would take Curtis Granderson over Albert Pujols this year? Asdrubal Cabrera?
Stats from 1 year aren't how we judge players in baseball. Pujols isn't the best because he has the best stats every single year. He's the best because he's consistent and more than that, consistently great. He's the most feared hitter in baseball and the other parts of his game are just as solid. Your not going to convince me that Prince the is more desirable player, even just fro this year, just because his stats look better. I wouldn't have taken Josh Hamilton or Carlos Gonzalex over Pujols last year, and I'm not gonna take Fielder over him this year.
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:51 PM
Post #58
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- IUCOLTFAN
- Aug 11 2011, 02:45 PM
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 02:15 PM
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- dreachon
- Aug 11 2011, 01:50 PM
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- hoosierinhogville
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- obatskii
- Aug 11 2011, 12:07 PM
I never said I would either, but I think it's a fair conversation.
Only because the contracts. Take that away and you get potentially one of the top 5 or 6 players all time versus a good player. That really isn't fair.
Not just because of the contracts. Again, Albert has dropped his batting average 3 straight years, injuries have started to plague him this year, and he's almost 4 1/2 years older. I don't think some of you give Fielder enough credit either. He's been REALLY good the last 5 years.
I'm not buying the injuries are plaguing him argument. It was a freak accident. The guy broke his wrist and came back 2 weeks later after it was reported he'd be out 6-8 weeks. He's a machine. And to keep hitting as well as he is with a broken wrist is ridiculous. He's better now than Fielder and he'll continue to be better than Fielder for the next several years IMO.
Admittedly, plaguing him probably wasn't the best phrase to use. He was out for a few weeks though, and Fielder has never been on the DL. I realize Albert has been very healthy throughout his career, but every game is important. What exactly do you mean he's better than Fielder now? Next year might revert to normal tendencies, but Fielder is CLEARLY the better player this year.
No, he isn't.
I know you're being serious, so I won't ask that, but.... How in the world do you come up with that conclusion? Albert has a few more runs and 1 more HR. Prince has substantial leads in RBI, BA, SLB, OPS, OBP, and for you sabermetrics nerds, WAR.
You've already mentioned that Pujols has been on the DL, so saying something like Prince has more RBIs (a stat highly dependent on who hits in front of you) doesn't resonate with me. Pujols came back 6 weeks early from a broken wrist and has continued to hit. Somehow, that fact knocks him down a peg in your mind, when in mine it amazes me. He's better defensively. He's a better baserunner. And yes, he's still a better hitter.
I actually agree on the RBI comment. I'm glad you picked that one out and flew over the other 5 statistics I presented you. Pujols has 7 errors at first and 3 at 3rd while Fielder has 11 errors at first. Pujols is a better baserunner, but he only has 6 steals. He's not exactly Michael Bourn out there. He also leads the league in GIDP. When did I ever say that knocked him down a peg? Don't put words in my mouth. As far as the statistics go, the injury has had very little effect. He hasn't hit any better or any worse since the injury. He was batting .279 before and now he's at .277. He is having a sub-par year with or without that injury. I don't see how anyone, Cardinals fan or not, could look at the statistics this year and think Albert has been a better hitter. That's mind-boggling to me.
Steals? Have you ever watched Pujols play the game? You basing your thoughts on Alberts "worst" year of his career is what is mind-boggling. Pujols started slow this season. Holiday was out for a stretch, Rasmus underperformed, They've lacked a good leadoff hitter, no real clear cut 2-hole hitter............what exactly do you want from the guy. He's having a down year and is still better than Uggla and Heyward combined. :D We're having a discussion about who's having a better year in 2011 right now. What the hell, do you want me to use Pujols' numbers from 2009 when he won the MVP?
Hopefully Heyward can figure it out this summer, because he's done this year. Nobody will remember Uggla's slow start when he break Dimaggio's record next month :)
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:55 PM
Post #59
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- Aug 11 2011, 02:48 PM
So I guess you would take Curtis Granderson over Albert Pujols this year? Asdrubal Cabrera?
Stats from 1 year aren't how we judge players in baseball. Pujols isn't the best because he has the best stats every single year. He's the best because he's consistent and more than that, consistently great. He's the most feared hitter in baseball and the other parts of his game are just as solid. Your not going to convince me that Prince the is more desirable player, even just fro this year, just because his stats look better. I wouldn't have taken Josh Hamilton or Carlos Gonzalex over Pujols last year, and I'm not gonna take Fielder over him this year. I get all that, but I thought we were discussing who's a better hitter so far this year? Pujols is the most feared and he is the best player in the game. Those statements aren't limited to the current season.
When we talk about who's having a better year this year, I couldn't give a rip about any other season besides the current one. THIS YEAR, Fielder is a better hitter.
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obatskii
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Aug 11 2011, 02:58 PM
Post #60
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Sounds like we will just disagree on that one.
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