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Pujols vs. Fielder; Who's your man?
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 10 2011, 01:13 PM (938 Views)
tAmazingHoosier Oct 13 2011, 12:27 PM Post #106
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I remember when Jay Bruce's batting average and homeruns were greater than Pujols last season..... Your theory is flawed my man.
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IUCOLTFAN Oct 13 2011, 02:28 PM Post #107
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When someone puts up Pujols numbers for 11 straight seasons then we should revisit this conversation. One of the commentators last night stated it best: Pujols is one of the only players EVER who could retire after 11 seasons and be a first ballot hall of famer.......Fielder will have a hard time making it at all and thats if he puts up this seasons numbers for the rest of his career.
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obatskii Oct 13 2011, 02:56 PM Post #108
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IUCOLTFAN
Oct 13 2011, 02:28 PM
When someone puts up Pujols numbers for 11 straight seasons then we should revisit this conversation. One of the commentators last night stated it best: Pujols is one of the only players EVER who could retire after 11 seasons and be a first ballot hall of famer.......Fielder will have a hard time making it at all and thats if he puts up this seasons numbers for the rest of his career.
Pujols is incredible; one of the three best players I've ever seen, and the other two did roids (Bonds, ARod).

That has nothing to do with this thread though, Colt.
Edited by obatskii, Oct 13 2011, 02:57 PM.
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hoosierinhogville Oct 13 2011, 03:45 PM Post #109
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obatskii
Oct 13 2011, 10:48 AM
dreachon
Oct 13 2011, 10:42 AM
obatskii
Oct 13 2011, 10:30 AM
Woah, woah woah...I said he was the better player this year, and at the time, I clearly think the facts back that up.

Look, I'm not going to rehash the whole argument every time Albert hits a HR and someone wants to be cute and take what I said out of context.

I just think you were confusing having better numbers with being a better player. Fielder had better numbers at the time. He was never a better player.
Apparently, I don't see the distinction between the two the same as you do. That was part of our misunderstanding in this thread.

To me if your stats are better in 2011, then you're the better player in said year. Regardless of the past or potential future possibilities, that's how I see it.
I think most people are giving you shit -myself included - because of the timing of the initial post. Had you waited until say the end of August things would have leveled out a bit. You were premature though and then continued to argue the point then it looks silly when it turns out that by the end of the season Pujols had the better year and is absolutely tearing it up in the post season.
It's all in good fun though.
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dçamden03 Oct 13 2011, 05:59 PM Post #110
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Even with the contracts involved, if you can get either one, you try and get Pujols. His contract would be front loaded, so you'd be paying him a shit ton of money while he's still an elite hitter, and then paying considerably less if he does go downhill fast at the plate (which I'm not sure he'll do) while still getting an elite fielder and positive influence in the locker room.
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

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obatskii Oct 14 2011, 05:02 AM Post #111
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The funny thing is, you guys act like I said I'd take Fielder. I even told Colt I would rather have Pujols.
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dreachon Jan 26 2012, 04:49 PM Post #112
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Aug 10 2011, 03:25 PM
I have said this from day 1.

There is no way Pujols doesn't return to St. Louis
Look for Carp not be resigned with the team. Holliday is already locked up long term. There's a youth movement in St. Louis with guys like Jon Jay and Allen Craig so they'll have a little room to play as vets get shown the door. In the end I think Pujols gives the Cards a hometown discount and the contract ends up around 27.5 mil/year
After the Fielder thread I cam back to look and check this out. Mega fail. Not only did Pujols leave, Carp resigned with the Cards.
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 26 2012, 09:05 PM Post #113
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I don't remember this tread having been started in relation to future contract comparisons....and I'm not gonna re-read it to find out
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obatskii Jan 30 2012, 04:54 PM Post #114
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Buster Olney blog...

o other free-agent position player came within $50 million of the deals that Albert Pujols ($246 million, according to the union's calculation) and Prince Fielder ($214 million) signed this winter.

No, check that: No other free-agent position player came within $100 million. There was a top 1 percent in the baseball world this winter, as well, with the middle class left to take the leftovers. The third-highest free-agent position player this winter was Jose Reyes, at $106 million, and the fourth-highest was Jimmy Rollins, whose deal of $38 million is more than $200 million less than Pujols' contract.

This makes the Pujols and Fielder deals fascinating to talent evaluators who have pored over the remains of the agreements as though they're conducting an autopsy.

An informal poll of 10 evaluators in the past few days -- a mix of team presidents, general managers, assistant GMs and scouts -- generated a solid consensus about whose deal was better for the respective clubs.

Five believe the Tigers' signing of Fielder was the better deal.

Three believe Pujols was the better signing.

Two believe both teams won't get what they paid for.

What follows are most of the individual responses:

High-ranking AL official: "I think I have to go with the Angels' signing of Pujols, only because from the marketing perspective, you understand what [Angels owner] Arte Moreno is trying to do. I think Pujols is going to have a much bigger impact from a revenue standpoint than Prince Fielder, because the Tigers have a ceiling with how much revenue they can generate. He's not going to change their TV [revenue] in the way that Pujols will. Albert's the older player, but I think he's the bigger star, and he'll generate more money."

High-ranking NL official: "Is Pujols going to be productive for two or three more years? Longer? That, to me, is the key question. If Pujols can be productive for the next six years, then the Angels got the better deal. If not, then Detroit. The Pujols deal could be an epic disaster if he's not productive in the last five or six years of the deal, at $30 million annually. The Fielder deal is one of the craziest deals in a while. That would have been a great deal at the beginning of the offseason. Not sure why the Tigers didn't just go huge for seven years. Given the market, $26 million a year over seven years or something would have been plenty. The nine years is just inexplicable in late January."

AL talent evaluator: "Fielder's the better deal. Fielder is the younger player, and he's left-handed; he turns 28 this spring. It's not inconceivable that at the end of this deal, he could still play a couple of more years, if he's pushing for the Hall of Fame. People I know say he absolutely loves this game. He loves playing baseball. I first saw Prince when he was in the ninth grade; he could rake then, and he can still rake now."

NL executive: "I think the Tigers got the better deal. Age matters. I might change my mind after the Cabrera third-base experiment unfolds."

NL executive: "Having lived those deals, I don't think either one of them will be happy."

AL scout: "Either deal is appealing, but I would go with the younger guy with fewer years -- Fielder."

AL official: "It's tough to tell. You have got Miguel Cabrera moving to third base, and that will dictate a lot to the value of the Fielder deal. Pujols fits better with the Angels, but [Mark] Trumbo has to switch positions or get traded. I think both will be good players early in the contract, but the true value will be told when they are four or five years into the deals."

NL evaluator: "I like the Tigers' deal for Fielder more than the Angels' deal for Pujols. Fielder is younger and more consistent, while Pujols is older -- and some people question his age being as young as he maintains -- and has seen his OPS decline for four straight seasons. Fielder got less money total, fewer years and less average annual value. Pujols brings leadership and legacy, but going forward, the better player is Fielder."

AL scout: "It's hard to like either of those deals, especially with respect to the Mark Teixeira and Adrian Gonzalez deals. However, if you're going to like one of them, I'd prefer the shorter, cheaper deal given to the younger player, to put it pretty simply, so I'd go with Detroit. I'm not sure either guy will carry any defensive value even three or four years into their respective deals, though at least Detroit can say that as Prince's deal winds down, they at least won't be paying him $30M per year as the Angels will to Pujols. Not crazy about either one, but Prince's seems to be more sensible."
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 30 2012, 06:01 PM Post #115
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Not real sure what your point is, pretty much everyone on here thinks both deals are crazy. But I do have to laugh at the " talent evaluator" thinking that Fielder could play 2 more years after this deal is up.....that seems like a huge stretch given his body type....DH or not.
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realtivelynew Jan 30 2012, 07:43 PM Post #116
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did one evaluator really say Fielder is more consistent? I guess he must be a Cubs executive.
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 30 2012, 09:05 PM Post #117
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realtivelynew
Jan 30 2012, 07:43 PM
did one evaluator really say Fielder is more consistent? I guess he must be a Cubs executive.
I think he was talking about the buffet line.....Fielder is definitely consistent there.

In my mind its kinda hard being more consistent than a career .328 hitter.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/p/pujolal01.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/f/fieldpr01.shtml


More consistent? Good god, what a moron.
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obatskii Jan 31 2012, 12:00 AM Post #118
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All the experts are idiots I suppose. It was nice reading that article after all the bashing I received though. If nothing else, me starting the thread originally should be validated.
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 31 2012, 04:02 PM Post #119
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Jan 31 2012, 12:00 AM
All the experts are idiots I suppose. It was nice reading that article after all the bashing I received though. If nothing else, me starting the thread originally should be validated.
Ummmm.....NO! Wasn't your original reason to start the post that Fielder was having a better year than Pujols? Kinda easy when Albert started so slow. I'm not gonna go back and go thru this entire thread but this gives you no redemption from the original post.

Experts??? Who is to say who these guys are? Its not like we have names to go along with these quotes. Who says they are experts? Ask the"talent evaluator" how many of his prospects have ever made the big leagues. Ask the "executive" if his job is in player development or the business side of the game. No doubt Fielder is a stud but to this point he is not even in Alberts league and some team panicking and gving him that long of a deal proves nothing. I'm pretty sure even one of your "experts" you quoted said the same.....Fielder could have been gotten with fewer years which would have lowered the overall contract......the Angels and the Tigers both overpaid....period.

"The Fielder deal is one of the craziest deals in a while. That would have been a great deal at the beginning of the offseason. Not sure why the Tigers didn't just go huge for seven years. Given the market, $26 million a year over seven years or something would have been plenty. The nine years is just inexplicable in late January." - Obatski's "expert"

Edited by IUCOLTFAN, Jan 31 2012, 04:05 PM.
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brumdog44 Jan 31 2012, 06:44 PM Post #120
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fangraphs.com

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4613&position=1B
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1177&position=1B

The only season Pujols WAR has been under six was last year, a year in which he played hurt and had a WAR of 5.1. Fielder has only been over 6 once.

Projections for next year from Bill James:
Fielder .285/.404/.552
Pujols .316/.414/.591
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