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Top 5 QBs right now; OT
Tweet Topic Started: Aug 23 2011, 08:11 AM (404 Views)
brumdog44 Aug 23 2011, 07:30 PM Post #16
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dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 12:37 PM
obatskii
Aug 23 2011, 08:41 AM
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Philip Rivers
5. Rodgers
6. Roethlisberger
How could you have Rivers over Rodgers?
Rodgers has a ring, but statistically it's hard to argue that Rivers hasn't put up the best numbers of ANY quarterback over the last three years.

Last year he had a very rag-tag group of wide receivers....Malcolm Floyd lead all of his receiver group last year with 37 receptions. Despite this, he put up a year with 8.7 yards per pass....that is unheard of in the NFL. The year before he was 8.8; in the last five years, he holds the top two seasons in yards/pass. In the last three years, there have been only 9 season QB ratings of 100+, and three of those are Rivers'. He is the only three QBs to put up three straight 100+ seasons...Manning did it in 2004-6 but did not do it before or after, Brady has only two 100+ seasons in his career. Steve Young actually topped them both, doing it in four straight seasons.

IMO, when you adjust for rule changes...ones in the 80s helped open up the game but the holding rules sometime after 2000 opened it up even more....the best quarterback of all-time was................






























Steve Young. His eight year run from 1991-1998 is unmatched....102.4 rating, 195 TD to 76 INT, 67% completion, 8.4 yards per pass, and ran for almost 3,000 yards during this time. If he had not been stuck behind Joe Montana until he was 30, who knows what numbers he would have put up for his career. In 4 years as a backup to Montana, he had 10 starts when Montana was hurt and put up a rating of over 102 with 23 TD to 6 INT.
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dreachon Aug 23 2011, 08:31 PM Post #17
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Blech. Young ain't even in the top 10.
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IUCOLTFAN Aug 23 2011, 09:37 PM Post #18
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I refuse to vote until Curtis Painter is added to the list.
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BTown11 Aug 23 2011, 09:50 PM Post #19
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Aug 23 2011, 09:37 PM
I refuse to vote until Curtis Painter is added to the list.
Curtis Painter wouldn't even be a Top 5 BCS conference QB this season.
Death to Signatures.
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brumdog44 Aug 23 2011, 09:56 PM Post #20
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dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 08:31 PM
Blech. Young ain't even in the top 10.
Manning has benefitted from rule changes......yet Young has a higher career rating.

Young also had the ability to run, which doesn't show up in the ratings.

Young started eight years in SF.....he lead the league incompletion percentage 5 times, yards per pass 6 times, and qb rating 6 times. He ran for 400 yards per season and at age 37 ran for 454.

Manning, in 13 seasons, has led the league in completion percentage Once, yards per pass once, and rating 3 times.

His has a higher rating than any retired Qb and trails only Rodgers and Rivers of active qbs...and it is highly unlikely they will finish their career above them.

But not top 10?
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dçamden03 Aug 23 2011, 11:07 PM Post #21
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1. Manning
2. Brady
3. Rodgers
4. Brees
5. Rivers
“He’s always been a guy — maybe to a fault — he would always try to do what I said. That seems like something simple in coaching, but those are the guys I hang my hat on. We’ve had some guys in our program, we had a couple guys that felt I had a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. And they were right — I do have a bias towards E’Twaun Moore. I like guys that go to class, that are academic All-Americans, that come early, that stay late, that love the game of basketball. I am biased towards those guys. And I’m biased towards Rob Hummel. But I’m also biased towards their habits, their work ethic, and how they carry themselves."

"I’d take him to the ends of the earth — I’d want him playing for me.” - Bo Ryan on Robbie Hummel

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Evilempire Aug 24 2011, 04:49 PM Post #22
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brumdog44
Aug 23 2011, 07:30 PM
dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 12:37 PM
obatskii
Aug 23 2011, 08:41 AM
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Philip Rivers
5. Rodgers
6. Roethlisberger
How could you have Rivers over Rodgers?
Rodgers has a ring, but statistically it's hard to argue that Rivers hasn't put up the best numbers of ANY quarterback over the last three years.

Last year he had a very rag-tag group of wide receivers....Malcolm Floyd lead all of his receiver group last year with 37 receptions. Despite this, he put up a year with 8.7 yards per pass....that is unheard of in the NFL. The year before he was 8.8; in the last five years, he holds the top two seasons in yards/pass. In the last three years, there have been only 9 season QB ratings of 100+, and three of those are Rivers'. He is the only three QBs to put up three straight 100+ seasons...Manning did it in 2004-6 but did not do it before or after, Brady has only two 100+ seasons in his career. Steve Young actually topped them both, doing it in four straight seasons.

IMO, when you adjust for rule changes...ones in the 80s helped open up the game but the holding rules sometime after 2000 opened it up even more....the best quarterback of all-time was................






























Steve Young. His eight year run from 1991-1998 is unmatched....102.4 rating, 195 TD to 76 INT, 67% completion, 8.4 yards per pass, and ran for almost 3,000 yards during this time. If he had not been stuck behind Joe Montana until he was 30, who knows what numbers he would have put up for his career. In 4 years as a backup to Montana, he had 10 starts when Montana was hurt and put up a rating of over 102 with 23 TD to 6 INT.
HAHAHAHA...........and this is why you can't just read boxscores. The QB rating system rewards a QB for taking a sack over throwing the ball away and giving his team better field position. Tell me which decision by the QB helps their team more.
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mongo Aug 24 2011, 04:53 PM Post #23
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I've never been a big fan of the QB rating. Maybe that's just me.
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obatskii Aug 24 2011, 04:53 PM Post #24
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Go Tebow!
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Evilempire
Aug 24 2011, 04:49 PM
brumdog44
Aug 23 2011, 07:30 PM
dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 12:37 PM
obatskii
Aug 23 2011, 08:41 AM
1. Brady
2. Manning
3. Brees
4. Philip Rivers
5. Rodgers
6. Roethlisberger
How could you have Rivers over Rodgers?
Rodgers has a ring, but statistically it's hard to argue that Rivers hasn't put up the best numbers of ANY quarterback over the last three years.

Last year he had a very rag-tag group of wide receivers....Malcolm Floyd lead all of his receiver group last year with 37 receptions. Despite this, he put up a year with 8.7 yards per pass....that is unheard of in the NFL. The year before he was 8.8; in the last five years, he holds the top two seasons in yards/pass. In the last three years, there have been only 9 season QB ratings of 100+, and three of those are Rivers'. He is the only three QBs to put up three straight 100+ seasons...Manning did it in 2004-6 but did not do it before or after, Brady has only two 100+ seasons in his career. Steve Young actually topped them both, doing it in four straight seasons.

IMO, when you adjust for rule changes...ones in the 80s helped open up the game but the holding rules sometime after 2000 opened it up even more....the best quarterback of all-time was................






























Steve Young. His eight year run from 1991-1998 is unmatched....102.4 rating, 195 TD to 76 INT, 67% completion, 8.4 yards per pass, and ran for almost 3,000 yards during this time. If he had not been stuck behind Joe Montana until he was 30, who knows what numbers he would have put up for his career. In 4 years as a backup to Montana, he had 10 starts when Montana was hurt and put up a rating of over 102 with 23 TD to 6 INT.
HAHAHAHA...........and this is why you can't just read boxscores. The QB rating system rewards a QB for taking a sack over throwing the ball away and giving his team better field position. Tell me which decision by the QB helps their team more.
Granted it was a while ago, and I'm not that old, but I don't remember young purposefully taking sacks instead of throwing it away.

Cowherd was actually talking about Steve Young the other day and he was much like Brum in thinking how good his numbers were. If he would have played right away, some of those averages probably would have come down a bit, but the fact remains; his numbers are outta this world.
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IUCOLTFAN Aug 24 2011, 04:57 PM Post #25
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brumdog44
Aug 23 2011, 09:56 PM
dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 08:31 PM
Blech. Young ain't even in the top 10.
Manning has benefitted from rule changes......yet Young has a higher career rating.

Young also had the ability to run, which doesn't show up in the ratings.

Young started eight years in SF.....he lead the league incompletion percentage 5 times, yards per pass 6 times, and qb rating 6 times. He ran for 400 yards per season and at age 37 ran for 454.

Manning, in 13 seasons, has led the league in completion percentage Once, yards per pass once, and rating 3 times.

His has a higher rating than any retired Qb and trails only Rodgers and Rivers of active qbs...and it is highly unlikely they will finish their career above them.

But not top 10?
you ever think that youngs ability to run helped with the higher percentage? not really mannings fault that he is 6'6" and 240. having jerry rice didnt hurt either. the niners were every bit as offensively loaded as the colts have been...maybe more.
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obatskii Aug 24 2011, 05:02 PM Post #26
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Go Tebow!
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IUCOLTFAN
Aug 24 2011, 04:57 PM
brumdog44
Aug 23 2011, 09:56 PM
dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 08:31 PM
Blech. Young ain't even in the top 10.
Manning has benefitted from rule changes......yet Young has a higher career rating.

Young also had the ability to run, which doesn't show up in the ratings.

Young started eight years in SF.....he lead the league incompletion percentage 5 times, yards per pass 6 times, and qb rating 6 times. He ran for 400 yards per season and at age 37 ran for 454.

Manning, in 13 seasons, has led the league in completion percentage Once, yards per pass once, and rating 3 times.

His has a higher rating than any retired Qb and trails only Rodgers and Rivers of active qbs...and it is highly unlikely they will finish their career above them.

But not top 10?
you ever think that youngs ability to run helped with the higher percentage? not really mannings fault that he is 6'6" and 240. having jerry rice didnt hurt either. the niners were every bit as offensively loaded as the colts have been...maybe more.
The niners were absolutely loaded. Their 1998 roster included Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, JJ Stokes, and Garrison Hearst in addition to a very good offensive line.

There's no doubt he had talent on the offensive side of the ball. His numbers are still sick though.
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obatskii Aug 24 2011, 05:02 PM Post #27
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BTW, Brady's numbers last year are about as impressive as I've ever seen.
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brumdog44 Aug 24 2011, 09:00 PM Post #28
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obatskii
Aug 24 2011, 05:02 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Aug 24 2011, 04:57 PM
brumdog44
Aug 23 2011, 09:56 PM
dreachon
Aug 23 2011, 08:31 PM
Blech. Young ain't even in the top 10.
Manning has benefitted from rule changes......yet Young has a higher career rating.

Young also had the ability to run, which doesn't show up in the ratings.

Young started eight years in SF.....he lead the league incompletion percentage 5 times, yards per pass 6 times, and qb rating 6 times. He ran for 400 yards per season and at age 37 ran for 454.

Manning, in 13 seasons, has led the league in completion percentage Once, yards per pass once, and rating 3 times.

His has a higher rating than any retired Qb and trails only Rodgers and Rivers of active qbs...and it is highly unlikely they will finish their career above them.

But not top 10?
you ever think that youngs ability to run helped with the higher percentage? not really mannings fault that he is 6'6" and 240. having jerry rice didnt hurt either. the niners were every bit as offensively loaded as the colts have been...maybe more.
The niners were absolutely loaded. Their 1998 roster included Jerry Rice, Terrell Owens, JJ Stokes, and Garrison Hearst in addition to a very good offensive line.

There's no doubt he had talent on the offensive side of the ball. His numbers are still sick though.
Evil, know what else doesn't get recorded in QB rating? Rushing yards. John Elway was always getting props for his ability to run...yet he only crossed 300 yards once (304); Young put up 4 400+ yard seasons in 8 years as a starter, including a 537 yard season and a 454 yard season AT 38. In Manning's last 8 years he has rushed for a total of 166 yards....yet he doesn't get dinged on that in his QB rating.

And there certainly are worse things than sacks....like throwing a pressured interception because you refuse to take a sack. Dan Marino and Peyton Manning have the quickest releases that I've seen. Manning has thrown an average of 16 interceptions per season, even with the rules favoring passing; Marino threw 15 per season. Young threw 9 1/2 and led the league in lowest interception rate twice.

So here is what it boils down to:

Young was a more accurate passer than Manning; he threw for more yards per pass, threw fewer picks.....Young was sacked about once more per game than Manning, but more than countered that with his running (Young averaged 5 runs for 30 yards/game, Manning has averaged about three yards on two carries per game.

You mention the crew he had in 1998, but look at the run game before that....four of his eight years there were no 1,000 yard rushers on his team and two times the leading rushers didn't break 600 yards.

In terms of quarterbacks having HOF receivers at their side.....it goes hand in hand. Peyton Manning will end up with two receivers in the HOF and probably a tight end as well (as well as a running back who gave him four 1,500 yard seasons). Troy Aikman had two HOFers in Irvin and Smith. The only two recent HOFers without multiple HOFers along side them are Marino, Brady and Elway....Elway couldn't even break 80 in his career rating and IMO is simply not HOF worthy...the bottom line is that Elway is in the HOF because in 2007 and 2008, he had a guy beside him named Terrell Davis run for 3,800 yards and run for 36 TDs and give Elway two titles. Elway with no titles doesn't get in; Marino with none does, but he's not the best ever. Brady has an argument, but is going to be marred unless he can put up a title without the aid of cameras.
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brumdog44 Aug 24 2011, 09:04 PM Post #29
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obatskii
Aug 24 2011, 05:02 PM
BTW, Brady's numbers last year are about as impressive as I've ever seen.
They were incredibly impressive, especially since he didn't have a Randy Moss (and when he did, he might as well not have been there).
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Evilempire Aug 25 2011, 09:06 PM Post #30
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So Elway carrying less than stellar teams to the SB doesn't count for anything? Obviously the 2 SBs cemented him as a HOFer, but I think he would have gotten in even if he doesn't win one of those games. You have to remember, defensive players were allowed to ride the hell out of receivers. It was a lot tougher to complete passes back then. That's why you see so many teams spreading things out now....there is just no way you can consistently cover a guy all over the field...someone is going to get open. Montana's numbers were pretty damn good, and he didn't really play a lot with Rice(2 SB wins before he got there)...then spent the last few years throwing to Willie Davis, an offensive lineman lining up at TE, and handing off to an ancient Marcus Allen.

Steve Young has impressive numbers, but his career started just as SF was completely loaded.....Rice, Taylor, Sherrard, Jones, Watters, William Floyd, etc. There was a reason why Young never got to play except for when Montana was hurt...he isn't a better QB.

I wish there was a formula that took everything into consideration, but there just isn't. That's why, on some level, you have to look at the eye test. Young faltered in big games almost every single time.....and the offense usually struggled for most of the game. SF beat DAL their Superbowl season because the defense forced 3 turnovers very early in the game. SD was simply overmatched. Without Sanders, Hanks, Eric Davis, Norton Jr, Stubblefield, Bryant Young, etc, Steve Young would never have won a SB.....did Elway ever have anything close to that kind of supporting cast until his final 2 seasons?
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