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Cain is surging!
Tweet Topic Started: Oct 12 2011, 06:08 PM (1,760 Views)
brumdog44 Oct 18 2011, 08:22 PM Post #31
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HoosierLars
Oct 18 2011, 09:19 AM
brumdog44
Oct 17 2011, 11:11 PM
Sure, Lars.

Hell, even Grover Nordquist is calling Cain out on his whole $9.99 plan.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2011/10/grover-norquist-9-9-9-very-dangerous-tapeworms-in-your-tummy-to-maintain-your-weight/
What are you so afraid of Brum? You were willing to support Ron Paul, a guy who wants to make significant government cuts, yet you insist on insulting Cain, instead of trying to discuss his policies. I certainly don't think all of the details of the 999 plan have been fully vetted and considered, but the basic concept seems sound to me. It will be bad for the CPA business, but so be it.

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Norquist said he doesn’t think the 9-9-9 plan violates his group’s pledge, which Cain has signed. But he said that’s not possible to know for sure since “it’s not clearly written down, it hasn’t been scored by CBO,” a reference to the Congressional Budget Office.

“Cain has taken the pledge, he understands what that’s about. The question is about the structure of the tax rather than the total burden,” he said.

“It doesn’t create new possibilities for growth,” Norquist added. “Look, I applaud Herman Cain’s statement that the present system is too high, it’s too re-distributionist, it moves money from one side to another, let’s take rates radically down, let’s end this double- and triple-taxation of savings. But the way he does it creates these new taxes like a VAT [value-added tax] and a retail sales tax that have a dangerous history of growing.”
Herman Cain doesn't even UNDERSTAND HIS OWN PLAN.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/cains-9-9-9-plan-doesnt-add-up/2011/10/18/gIQArk0gvL_story.html

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Cain is even more muddled on the undeniably regressive impact of his plan. “Some people will pay more, but most people would pay less,” Cain told NBC’s David Gregory.

The Tax Policy Center analysis shows that Cain has it exactly backward. Compared with current tax rates, 84 percent of taxpayers would pay more under 9-9-9 if it were fully implemented in 2013. Just 14 percent — the wealthiest — would see their tax bills drop.

By a lot. The top 1 percent, earning $600,000 and up, would pay almost 20 percent less, for an average tax break of $238,000. The middle 20 percent, those with incomes between $37,000 and $65,000, would see their taxes rise 10 percent — an average increase of $4,330.


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Cain adviser Richard Lowrie said the candidate mistakenly invoked dynamic scoring. But even under a more traditional analysis, Lowrie said, the plan would be revenue-neutral, meaning it would not lose money.

“On occasion he might transpose the terms,” Lowrie told me. “When asked if it is revenue-neutral, he might say it’s dynamically scored. He might misspeak.”

This is not reassuring. Sure, anyone can jumble up terminology, especially in the unaccustomed glare of a presidential debate. But a few days earlier, Cain said the same thing.


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Cain ignores any impact of the business tax on wages. Meanwhile, he asserts that the 9 percent retail sales tax would not raise the final cost of goods; rather, it would replace existing taxes “embedded” in the current price. If anything, he asserts, prices will drop.

Simultaneously, however, Cain claims the tax isn’t a problem for lower-income people because they can simply buy used goods, on which the tax would not apply. Slight problem: There’s no such thing as used milk.

Assume Cain is right. Prices won’t go up. Wages won’t fall. Cain simplistically argues that the existing payroll tax adds up to 15 percent and asserts that people will be six percentage points better off under his 9 percent plan.

This is wrong, as explained above. But consider the impact of only the personal income tax on two taxpayers earning $25,000 and $250,000, both married with two children. According to the Tax Foundation’s nifty calculator, the $25,000 earner owes $1,413 in payroll taxes. Thanks to the Earned Income Tax Credit and the Child Tax Credit, his income tax liability is negative. He receives a $5,002 check. Under the Cain plan, he owes $2,250.

Assuming a standard deduction, the $250,000 earner owes combined income and payroll taxes of $60,765. His Cain tax is $22,500. Explain again, Mr. Cain, who wins under your plan?


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BTown11 Oct 18 2011, 08:53 PM Post #32
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as of right now I'm a Romney guy, but I just moved and don't have an ID in this state so I can't vote anyways. #meh
Death to Signatures.
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yawnzzz Oct 18 2011, 09:21 PM Post #33
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Oct 18 2011, 08:53 PM
as of right now I'm a Romney guy, but I just moved and don't have an ID in this state so I can't vote anyways. #meh
What puts you in favor of Romney?

Based on just tonight's debate, here's my rankings:
1. Cain
T-2. Paul
T-2. Gingrich
4. Santorum
T-5. Romney
T-5. Perry
7. Bachmann

Punch lines like Romney's bushel of fruits and Bachman's flip 9-9-9 and you see the devil's in the details get the loudest applause, but there's no substance to their comments.
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mongo Oct 18 2011, 09:40 PM Post #34
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I like Huntsman. Too bad he's got no shot.
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sirbrianwilson Oct 18 2011, 11:06 PM Post #35
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believe me, i'd LOVE to vote for a republican that actually has his shit together. Now, produce one!

br
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HoosierLars Oct 19 2011, 09:58 AM Post #36
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Brum, I have more confidence in Cain's analysis than some hack writer from the Washington Compost.

The one thing that jumps out at me is the fact that the 25k earner is getting 5K back from the IRS. Let's stop calling this his "tax" and call it what it is: welfare. We can continue making payments like this, but should at least be more honest about it.
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yawnzzz Oct 19 2011, 11:04 AM Post #37
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Oct 19 2011, 09:58 AM
Brum, I have more confidence in Cain's analysis than some hack writer from the Washington Compost.

The one thing that jumps out at me is the fact that the 25k earner is getting 5K back from the IRS. Let's stop calling this his "tax" and call it what it is: welfare. We can continue making payments like this, but should at least be more honest about it.
I wouldn't call it welfare; it's a subsidy. The companies that hire full-time employees at wages where they receive tax refunds greater than what they contribute are the ones that are truly receiving this benefit.
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Old_School Oct 19 2011, 12:18 PM Post #38
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Lars, here's your boy Peter Schiff's take on Cain's 9-9-9 plan.

The poster formerly known as mybracketownsyou.
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brumdog44 Oct 19 2011, 04:58 PM Post #39
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Oct 19 2011, 09:58 AM
Brum, I have more confidence in Cain's analysis than some hack writer from the Washington Compost.

The one thing that jumps out at me is the fact that the 25k earner is getting 5K back from the IRS. Let's stop calling this his "tax" and call it what it is: welfare. We can continue making payments like this, but should at least be more honest about it.
So let me get you on the record: you believe Herman Cain when he says most people would pay less taxes under his plan? PLEASE make this claim. I double dog dare you.

The non-partisan Tax Policy Center goes even further.


http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2011/10/18/cain%E2%80%99s-9-9-9-plan-would-cut-taxes-for-the-rich-raise-taxes-for-almost-everyone-else/

"Say you want to buy a pizza. First, under the business tax the pizza guy pays a tax on the difference between the retail price and his cost of producing the pie. Every firm along the supply chain would do the same: The farmer would pay 9 percent on his sales of raw tomatoes minus his costs, the sauce manufacturer would pay another 9 percent. This is just like a retail sales tax, except it is collected at every step of production along the way. But it is still passed on to consumers. Next you pay a separate 9 percent retail sales at the register. Finally, you have to pay the 9 percent individual flat tax.

There is more. Because employers would be taxed on wages they pay, economists figure the levy would result in lower salaries. Not only would the combination of lower incomes and higher taxes reduce the current standard of living for many middle-class households, those lower wages would also result in lower Social Security benefits down the road.

Cain apparently has an idea for a credit to protect low- and middle-class households from some of the burden of this triple tax, but he has not yet said what it is. And the problem, of course, is the more generous the credit, the less revenue the tax will generate. Because his plan is roughly revenue neutral now, that would force him to either increase the deficit or abandon that nice sounding 9-9-9 and raise his proposed tax rates.

Now, there is nothing wrong with a well-designed consumption tax. There are even benefits to adding a Value-Added Tax to a personal income tax while using it to buy down corporate income and payroll taxes. But a well-designed consumption tax retains a progressive rate structure somewhere in the system. Cain’s does not. Instead he opts for what is effectively a 25 percent flat rate sales tax. And that’s why he raises taxes on typical middle-income households by more than $4,000 while cutting them on those with the highest incomes by an average of $1.4 million."



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chops1221 Oct 19 2011, 05:03 PM Post #40
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I'm just gonna leave this here

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sirbrianwilson Oct 19 2011, 10:07 PM Post #41
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Oct 19 2011, 05:03 PM
I'm just gonna leave this here

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lol. great pic.

br
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HoosierLars Oct 19 2011, 11:02 PM Post #42
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yawnzzz
Oct 19 2011, 11:04 AM
HoosierLars
Oct 19 2011, 09:58 AM
Brum, I have more confidence in Cain's analysis than some hack writer from the Washington Compost.

The one thing that jumps out at me is the fact that the 25k earner is getting 5K back from the IRS. Let's stop calling this his "tax" and call it what it is: welfare. We can continue making payments like this, but should at least be more honest about it.
I wouldn't call it welfare; it's a subsidy.
That depends what the definition of "is" is.
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Old_School Oct 20 2011, 10:25 AM Post #43
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Here's an interesting article on Cain.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/10/18/herman_cain_fec_filing_shows_cain_paid_campaign_cash_to_t_h_e_ne.html?wpisrc=xs_wp_0001

Cain Spent Campaign Cash to Buy Own Book
FEC filings also show the GOP contender turned to his own company to make the $36K purchase.
The poster formerly known as mybracketownsyou.
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HoosierLars Oct 20 2011, 09:52 PM Post #44
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Oct 20 2011, 10:25 AM
Here's an interesting article on Cain.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/10/18/herman_cain_fec_filing_shows_cain_paid_campaign_cash_to_t_h_e_ne.html?wpisrc=xs_wp_0001

Cain Spent Campaign Cash to Buy Own Book
FEC filings also show the GOP contender turned to his own company to make the $36K purchase.
Is the Hermanator your guy now?
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mongo Oct 20 2011, 10:00 PM Post #45
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HoosierLars
Oct 20 2011, 09:52 PM
Old_School
Oct 20 2011, 10:25 AM
Here's an interesting article on Cain.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/10/18/herman_cain_fec_filing_shows_cain_paid_campaign_cash_to_t_h_e_ne.html?wpisrc=xs_wp_0001

Cain Spent Campaign Cash to Buy Own Book
FEC filings also show the GOP contender turned to his own company to make the $36K purchase.
Is the Hermanator your guy now?
Man between the Hermanator nickname and his pizza themed Imagine cover how can I not vote for him?
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