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Brum, this one is for you
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 29 2011, 03:04 PM (88 Views)
IUCOLTFAN Dec 29 2011, 03:04 PM Post #1
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/in-washington-area-african-american-students-suspended-and-expelled-two-to-five-times-as-often-as-whites/2011/12/23/gIQA8WNQNP_story.html


What are your thoughts on this?
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brumdog44 Dec 29 2011, 05:59 PM Post #2
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From what I read in the article, pretty much everyone is trying to make their own spin and point their fingers elsewhere. The bottom line is that suspensions -- particularly out of school suspensions -- are deterrents only to those who care about being in school.

Read the comment in the comment section from 'LoosenUCLA', who is pretty much on the mark. Schools with concrete, by the book enforcement of rules where penalties for suspension (out of school) for only the most harsh offenses fared better. The purpose of an out of school suspension should either be for safety of other students (in the case of weapons or fighting) or as an indication to a student that other means of suspension have not worked and they are moving toward an expulsion.

Secondly, schools IMO need to get police involved in manners that would be situations that would, on the street, involve them....i.e., weapons possession, assault, drug possession and especially drug trafficking. Too often schools handle this as only as a school offense.
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IUCOLTFAN Dec 30 2011, 09:11 AM Post #3
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brumdog44
Dec 29 2011, 05:59 PM
From what I read in the article, pretty much everyone is trying to make their own spin and point their fingers elsewhere. The bottom line is that suspensions -- particularly out of school suspensions -- are deterrents only to those who care about being in school.

Read the comment in the comment section from 'LoosenUCLA', who is pretty much on the mark. Schools with concrete, by the book enforcement of rules where penalties for suspension (out of school) for only the most harsh offenses fared better. The purpose of an out of school suspension should either be for safety of other students (in the case of weapons or fighting) or as an indication to a student that other means of suspension have not worked and they are moving toward an expulsion.

Secondly, schools IMO need to get police involved in manners that would be situations that would, on the street, involve them....i.e., weapons possession, assault, drug possession and especially drug trafficking. Too often schools handle this as only as a school offense.
Wouldn't getting the police involved just cause more claims of a racial divide because it seems to me that those kinds of violations would be racially disproportionate also??
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brumdog44 Dec 30 2011, 09:20 AM Post #4
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IUCOLTFAN
Dec 30 2011, 09:11 AM
brumdog44
Dec 29 2011, 05:59 PM
From what I read in the article, pretty much everyone is trying to make their own spin and point their fingers elsewhere. The bottom line is that suspensions -- particularly out of school suspensions -- are deterrents only to those who care about being in school.

Read the comment in the comment section from 'LoosenUCLA', who is pretty much on the mark. Schools with concrete, by the book enforcement of rules where penalties for suspension (out of school) for only the most harsh offenses fared better. The purpose of an out of school suspension should either be for safety of other students (in the case of weapons or fighting) or as an indication to a student that other means of suspension have not worked and they are moving toward an expulsion.

Secondly, schools IMO need to get police involved in manners that would be situations that would, on the street, involve them....i.e., weapons possession, assault, drug possession and especially drug trafficking. Too often schools handle this as only as a school offense.
Wouldn't getting the police involved just cause more claims of a racial divide because it seems to me that those kinds of violations would be racially disproportionate also??
Things that are subjective -- like insubordination referrals, which can encompass a whole variety of areas -- can be rightly or wrongly open to claims.

Zero tolerance drug and weapon schools IMO can not ever be subject to VALID claims of racially disporportionalities because, by their nature, if they are enforced to the letter of the law it is not left up to any interpretation.
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IUCOLTFAN Dec 30 2011, 09:35 AM Post #5
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brumdog44
Dec 30 2011, 09:20 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Dec 30 2011, 09:11 AM
brumdog44
Dec 29 2011, 05:59 PM
From what I read in the article, pretty much everyone is trying to make their own spin and point their fingers elsewhere. The bottom line is that suspensions -- particularly out of school suspensions -- are deterrents only to those who care about being in school.

Read the comment in the comment section from 'LoosenUCLA', who is pretty much on the mark. Schools with concrete, by the book enforcement of rules where penalties for suspension (out of school) for only the most harsh offenses fared better. The purpose of an out of school suspension should either be for safety of other students (in the case of weapons or fighting) or as an indication to a student that other means of suspension have not worked and they are moving toward an expulsion.

Secondly, schools IMO need to get police involved in manners that would be situations that would, on the street, involve them....i.e., weapons possession, assault, drug possession and especially drug trafficking. Too often schools handle this as only as a school offense.
Wouldn't getting the police involved just cause more claims of a racial divide because it seems to me that those kinds of violations would be racially disproportionate also??
Things that are subjective -- like insubordination referrals, which can encompass a whole variety of areas -- can be rightly or wrongly open to claims.

Zero tolerance drug and weapon schools IMO can not ever be subject to VALID claims of racially disporportionalities because, by their nature, if they are enforced to the letter of the law it is not left up to any interpretation.
I agree with you on that but I'm not sure that is how it would appear to society at large. Race is constantly made an issue even if it is not an issue. Once a certain race started dominating the statistics the problem would become about the policy not being fair to that given race instead of the violations actually being the problem, imo. Sad but true.
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HoosierLars Dec 30 2011, 11:03 AM Post #6
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IUCOLTFAN
Dec 30 2011, 09:35 AM
brumdog44
Dec 30 2011, 09:20 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Dec 30 2011, 09:11 AM
brumdog44
Dec 29 2011, 05:59 PM
From what I read in the article, pretty much everyone is trying to make their own spin and point their fingers elsewhere. The bottom line is that suspensions -- particularly out of school suspensions -- are deterrents only to those who care about being in school.

Read the comment in the comment section from 'LoosenUCLA', who is pretty much on the mark. Schools with concrete, by the book enforcement of rules where penalties for suspension (out of school) for only the most harsh offenses fared better. The purpose of an out of school suspension should either be for safety of other students (in the case of weapons or fighting) or as an indication to a student that other means of suspension have not worked and they are moving toward an expulsion.

Secondly, schools IMO need to get police involved in manners that would be situations that would, on the street, involve them....i.e., weapons possession, assault, drug possession and especially drug trafficking. Too often schools handle this as only as a school offense.
Wouldn't getting the police involved just cause more claims of a racial divide because it seems to me that those kinds of violations would be racially disproportionate also??
Things that are subjective -- like insubordination referrals, which can encompass a whole variety of areas -- can be rightly or wrongly open to claims.

Zero tolerance drug and weapon schools IMO can not ever be subject to VALID claims of racially disporportionalities because, by their nature, if they are enforced to the letter of the law it is not left up to any interpretation.
I agree with you on that but I'm not sure that is how it would appear to society at large. Race is constantly made an issue even if it is not an issue. Once a certain race started dominating the statistics the problem would become about the policy not being fair to that given race instead of the violations actually being the problem, imo. Sad but true.
+1
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brumdog44 Dec 30 2011, 02:42 PM Post #7
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And all you can do is examine the issue to see if there are reasons for the occurrence. Sometimes there is racism involved, often not. Not sure what answer you are looking for....there is a large amount of minority suspensions in the areas they surveyed; there is also a large amount of one parent, poverty stricken families. Unless non-isolated cases are being cited where different races are being treated differently, racism doesn't exist.

If rules are put on the books and enforced by the letter of the law, then there isn't any issue involved.
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Mr Gray Dec 30 2011, 07:55 PM Post #8
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it certainly isn't "politically correct" to be factual and honest today, however anyone who denies that black students misbehave more than other students is simply disconnected from reality. This isn't any more racist than saying that there are more black athletes in the NBA than other races.

Is there something in your skin pigment that makes you act like an assclown in class? Of course not, but there is a problem in the black culture today regarding discipline and behavior. Unfortunately it far too often carries through to adulthood, which is why we see such disproportionate crime statistics with blacks as well.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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BTown11 Jan 2 2012, 02:19 AM Post #9
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I went to a high school where, as a white male, I was in the minority, and the majority of suspensions, expulsions, and disciplinary actions were taken against black students. Even things like ISS (in school suspension) were vastly black, even compared to the overall racial make-up of the school (the school was about 65% black, and the ISS rooms were usually about 80-90% if not more).

That said, I went to school with a lot of white kids were were bad students and with a lot of black kids that were great. I would say about half of the teachers at school were minorities, as were the majority of school administration. I think brum is right here. It's not that they're black, it's that they are cultured (for lack of a better term) into not caring about school, their discipline problems, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you fix the problem? I'm not sure that you can. From what I observed most of these kids come to school with this type of attitude and there is very little a teacher can really do about it. Sad, but true. How can you make a kid care about something they think has no bearing on their future? That isn't correct but it's certainly what they think.
Death to Signatures.
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HoosierLars Jan 2 2012, 12:49 PM Post #10
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BTown11
Jan 2 2012, 02:19 AM
I went to a high school where, as a white male, I was in the minority, and the majority of suspensions, expulsions, and disciplinary actions were taken against black students. Even things like ISS (in school suspension) were vastly black, even compared to the overall racial make-up of the school (the school was about 65% black, and the ISS rooms were usually about 80-90% if not more).

That said, I went to school with a lot of white kids were were bad students and with a lot of black kids that were great. I would say about half of the teachers at school were minorities, as were the majority of school administration. I think brum is right here. It's not that they're black, it's that they are cultured (for lack of a better term) into not caring about school, their discipline problems, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you fix the problem? I'm not sure that you can. From what I observed most of these kids come to school with this type of attitude and there is very little a teacher can really do about it. Sad, but true. How can you make a kid care about something they think has no bearing on their future? That isn't correct but it's certainly what they think.
Liberals have brainwashed blacks to believe government is the solution to all of their problems (Herman Cain's words, not mine.) Without the black vote, Democrats couldn't be elected dog-catcher. This is a difficult problem to solve, and will take a generation to fix, but we need to get started asap.
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BTown11 Jan 2 2012, 03:19 PM Post #11
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Jan 2 2012, 12:49 PM
BTown11
Jan 2 2012, 02:19 AM
I went to a high school where, as a white male, I was in the minority, and the majority of suspensions, expulsions, and disciplinary actions were taken against black students. Even things like ISS (in school suspension) were vastly black, even compared to the overall racial make-up of the school (the school was about 65% black, and the ISS rooms were usually about 80-90% if not more).

That said, I went to school with a lot of white kids were were bad students and with a lot of black kids that were great. I would say about half of the teachers at school were minorities, as were the majority of school administration. I think brum is right here. It's not that they're black, it's that they are cultured (for lack of a better term) into not caring about school, their discipline problems, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you fix the problem? I'm not sure that you can. From what I observed most of these kids come to school with this type of attitude and there is very little a teacher can really do about it. Sad, but true. How can you make a kid care about something they think has no bearing on their future? That isn't correct but it's certainly what they think.
Liberals have brainwashed blacks to believe government is the solution to all of their problems (Herman Cain's words, not mine.) Without the black vote, Democrats couldn't be elected dog-catcher. This is a difficult problem to solve, and will take a generation to fix, but we need to get started asap.
Although I don't completely agree, I think there is some truth in that.
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brumdog44 Jan 2 2012, 05:58 PM Post #12
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HoosierLars
Jan 2 2012, 12:49 PM
BTown11
Jan 2 2012, 02:19 AM
I went to a high school where, as a white male, I was in the minority, and the majority of suspensions, expulsions, and disciplinary actions were taken against black students. Even things like ISS (in school suspension) were vastly black, even compared to the overall racial make-up of the school (the school was about 65% black, and the ISS rooms were usually about 80-90% if not more).

That said, I went to school with a lot of white kids were were bad students and with a lot of black kids that were great. I would say about half of the teachers at school were minorities, as were the majority of school administration. I think brum is right here. It's not that they're black, it's that they are cultured (for lack of a better term) into not caring about school, their discipline problems, or anyone else for that matter.

How do you fix the problem? I'm not sure that you can. From what I observed most of these kids come to school with this type of attitude and there is very little a teacher can really do about it. Sad, but true. How can you make a kid care about something they think has no bearing on their future? That isn't correct but it's certainly what they think.
Liberals have brainwashed blacks to believe government is the solution to all of their problems (Herman Cain's words, not mine.) Without the black vote, Democrats couldn't be elected dog-catcher. This is a difficult problem to solve, and will take a generation to fix, but we need to get started asap.
You should know about Herman Cain and brainwashing.
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