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IU vs. Michigan; Game Thread
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2012, 08:44 PM (1,904 Views)
dedicatedIUfan Jan 6 2012, 08:56 AM Post #331
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The last two games, Jones has had 7 assists and 10 turnovers. That is what bugs all of us about him. His defense is better, he is shooting free throws a lot better this year than last, but missed two front in of one and one's. But he said he was going to shoot some extra free throws after the game, that will be good. By the way, no mention the fact that he tries to play hero in some games. Like the OSU game when we were trying to build a lead and he comes down, I believe it was on two consecutive plays, and throws up an off balance 16 to 18 footer early in the shot clock. Like at a lot of us said, FRUSTRATING. But we are OK with having him on the team and he is a much better option than DM.

Hulls is frustrating as well. Has a reall good scoring night against OSU, but didn't seem like he wanted to take shots. I think he passed up several open opportunities and really seemed slower out there than in past games. He has got to play better defense and stay on the floor to take some of the ballhandling pressure off of VJ, then maybe VJ wouldn't think he has to make those type of plays. I do think Hulls needs to be blamed in some of VJ's misfortune as well. If he can keep his ass on the foor, then I think the entire team plays better. I remember in some of those earlier games, VJ wasn't handling the ball near as much and that is because Hulls was playing good.

I think Elston is getting better, but still needs to build shooting confidence wearing that mask.

All-in-all, we won an ugly game and the last two years we wouldn't have won that game. So praise goes out to the team.

Watford is starting to really find his role on this team and is really playing with confidence.

Cody is still steady, but would like to see him pick up his rebounding.

Great team win.
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obatskii Jan 6 2012, 09:43 AM Post #332
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Someone said it earlier but it's worth repeating; Cody and CWat are really starting to gel together. They compliment each other almost perfectly.

Also, not a big fan of the 11 am start time on Sunday.
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mongo Jan 6 2012, 10:13 AM Post #333
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Did not get to see the game last night but my buddy summed it up and I saw the highlights. Michigan' a good team, and without Sheehey and them shooting well from deep very happy to get the win, don't care if it was only by 2. Love going 2-1 in these first 3. I don't have many complaints this year, like basically none, but my only concern is that we built a 10 point lead late in the 2nd half at home and they got back in it. Regardless I'm happy. Really excited to see the chemistry between Zeller and Watford continue to grow.
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dreachon Jan 6 2012, 10:14 AM Post #334
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What I guess I don't understand from the VJIII haters, is that we KNOW from the last 3 years when Jones is asked to run the offense for significant portions of the game, it leads to some turnovers for him. He's not a point guard. I don't know how many times I have to say this. So last night when he is asked to run the offense for much of the game and it leads to some turnovers, everyone freaks out and starts bagging on him. As if you all are surprised at what you are seeing. I just don't get it. Jones does the best he can with what he's asked to do.

This kind of reminds me of Marshall Strickland. Remember he came in as a SG but was asked to play point guard so the glorious Bracey Wright could play his natural position of SG. Anyone remember what happened with Marshall's senior year when he was finally able to move back to SG? He was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking how nice it would have been to have him at SG his whole career.

Point is, this is what happens with lack of PG depth. Someone who's not a PG is asked to take on the responsibilities. You just have to live with it. To come on the board and start blasting Jones for not playing well in a position that's not natural for him is just silly.
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mongo Jan 6 2012, 10:20 AM Post #335
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I'm just skipping over any posts bitching about Jones from now on. Lay off people. We're 14-1. This is his last year. He's done plenty of good in his career here, too. That's it. I'm never acknowledging a post bitching about him again.
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obatskii Jan 6 2012, 10:28 AM Post #336
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Jan 6 2012, 10:20 AM
I'm just skipping over any posts bitching about Jones from now on. Lay off people. We're 14-1. This is his last year. He's done plenty of good in his career here, too. That's it. I'm never acknowledging a post bitching about him again.
Good luck with that, Mongo.

I've told myself a hundred times I'm going to ignore the haters, but I can't help myself and I end up defending him with regularity.
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mongo Jan 6 2012, 10:30 AM Post #337
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obatskii
Jan 6 2012, 10:28 AM
mongo
Jan 6 2012, 10:20 AM
I'm just skipping over any posts bitching about Jones from now on. Lay off people. We're 14-1. This is his last year. He's done plenty of good in his career here, too. That's it. I'm never acknowledging a post bitching about him again.
Good luck with that, Mongo.

I've told myself a hundred times I'm going to ignore the haters, but I can't help myself and I end up defending him with regularity.
This seasons been too much fun and I don't get on the board enough to get caught up in that business.
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obatskii Jan 6 2012, 10:33 AM Post #338
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mongo
Jan 6 2012, 10:30 AM
obatskii
Jan 6 2012, 10:28 AM
mongo
Jan 6 2012, 10:20 AM
I'm just skipping over any posts bitching about Jones from now on. Lay off people. We're 14-1. This is his last year. He's done plenty of good in his career here, too. That's it. I'm never acknowledging a post bitching about him again.
Good luck with that, Mongo.

I've told myself a hundred times I'm going to ignore the haters, but I can't help myself and I end up defending him with regularity.
This seasons been too much fun and I don't get on the board enough to get caught up in that business.
I can't imagine what type of flak Verdell would receive if we were 9-6 right now.

And damnit, Mongo, you need to get on the board more!
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sirbrianwilson Jan 6 2012, 10:35 AM Post #339
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At least this season we can talk about players we like/dislike under a 14-1 record with three top 15 wins. Damn, it's been painful...

br
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tkeena33 Jan 6 2012, 04:52 PM Post #340
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dreachon
Jan 6 2012, 10:14 AM
What I guess I don't understand from the VJIII haters, is that we KNOW from the last 3 years when Jones is asked to run the offense for significant portions of the game, it leads to some turnovers for him. He's not a point guard. I don't know how many times I have to say this. So last night when he is asked to run the offense for much of the game and it leads to some turnovers, everyone freaks out and starts bagging on him. As if you all are surprised at what you are seeing. I just don't get it. Jones does the best he can with what he's asked to do.

This kind of reminds me of Marshall Strickland. Remember he came in as a SG but was asked to play point guard so the glorious Bracey Wright could play his natural position of SG. Anyone remember what happened with Marshall's senior year when he was finally able to move back to SG? He was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking how nice it would have been to have him at SG his whole career.

Point is, this is what happens with lack of PG depth. Someone who's not a PG is asked to take on the responsibilities. You just have to live with it. To come on the board and start blasting Jones for not playing well in a position that's not natural for him is just silly.
So in a nutshell..."Don't criticize players or get frustrated with players because their trying their best." Is that it? Sounds like something a parent in an 8 year old Y-ball league would say.

For one, dumping everybody who criticizes VJIII into the "Verdell Haters" is stupid. Criticizing a player doesn't make you hater. It makes you a realist. I am definitely not a Verdell hater and really think that he has improved greatly over his four years. His jumpshot, his defense, his FT shooting...all improved. He (along with Hulls and Watford) has shown he can make clutch shots. However, one area he has not improved is TOs. He's handling the ball less this year, playing slightly fewer minutes per game than the last 2 years, and still averaging 3 TO per game. And last night he had some bonehead turnovers and bonehead shots in key situations. You cannot deny that, and if you do, you're a homer more than someone who points it out is a hater. Just pointing out bad decisions doesn't make you hater. For example, I love Oladipo and Hulls, but I would be the first to point out that Oladipo had some bonehead plays as well, esp. in the second half, and Hulls (who was almost invisible on offense) should NEVER give up the ball in a situation like last night when he knows the opponent will foul. We ran a specific inbound play to get him or Watford the ball, and he got the ball and passed it. Not smart.

Sure some people go over the top in their criticism, but that doesn't mean none of it's warranted. And that doesn't mean all people who criticize are "Verdell Haters." And constantly pointing out his flaws over the course of a game is just as extreme to say "I'm never reading any Verdell Jones criticism ever again." It's basketball. It's a sport. We are fans. Personally this board (and life) would be pretty sad if we just talked about how awesome we thought everything was and never about flaws or areas for improvement.
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brumdog44 Jan 6 2012, 05:00 PM Post #341
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There is a difference between criticizing Jones and consistently only pointing out him when things aren't going right.

Read through the thread and compare the amount of criticism that Hulls received to what Jones did. We had people going apeshit over why Jones was in the game when Hulls wasn't. Hulls played a horrid game last night and ultimately, he couldn't guard anybody on the floor last night.
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dreachon Jan 6 2012, 05:04 PM Post #342
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Jan 6 2012, 04:52 PM
So in a nutshell..."Don't criticize players or get frustrated with players because their trying their best." Is that it? Sounds like something a parent in an 8 year old Y-ball league would say.

For one, dumping everybody who criticizes VJIII into the "Verdell Haters" is stupid. Criticizing a player doesn't make you hater. It makes you a realist. I am definitely not a Verdell hater and really think that he has improved greatly over his four years. His jumpshot, his defense, his FT shooting...all improved. He (along with Hulls and Watford) has shown he can make clutch shots. However, one area he has not improved is TOs. He's handling the ball less this year, playing slightly fewer minutes per game than the last 2 years, and still averaging 3 TO per game. And last night he had some bonehead turnovers and bonehead shots in key situations. You cannot deny that, and if you do, you're a homer more than someone who points it out is a hater. Just pointing out bad decisions doesn't make you hater. For example, I love Oladipo and Hulls, but I would be the first to point out that Oladipo had some bonehead plays as well, esp. in the second half, and Hulls (who was almost invisible on offense) should NEVER give up the ball in a situation like last night when he knows the opponent will foul. We ran a specific inbound play to get him or Watford the ball, and he got the ball and passed it. Not smart.

Sure some people go over the top in their criticism, but that doesn't mean none of it's warranted. And that doesn't mean all people who criticize are "Verdell Haters." And constantly pointing out his flaws over the course of a game is just as extreme to say "I'm never reading any Verdell Jones criticism ever again." It's basketball. It's a sport. We are fans. Personally this board (and life) would be pretty sad if we just talked about how awesome we thought everything was and never about flaws or areas for improvement.
Actually, in a nutshell, don't criticize a guy for the same shit over and over and over again when you know he's playing out of position. It's tiresome, and short-sighted.

If we were playing Verdell at the 5, it'd be like everyone on here talking about how terrible he is at posting up (insert opposing player's name here). And how he always gets his shot blocked! People KNOW he's not a point guard and still bitch, every single game, when he makes a mistake while being asked to run the point.

I don't deny he makes mistakes. But there is a HUGE difference between acknowledging his limitations and talking about what a fucking moron he is or how we're better off without him or whatever. It's just ridiculous to hear him get that kind of criticism.
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tkeena33 Jan 6 2012, 05:15 PM Post #343
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To think that his turnovers come only because he's playing PG seems silly. I guess I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of his turnovers come when he is driving into traffic with his head down, something he could do (and does) just as often while playing SG as PG.

Also, there is a lot bigger difference between SG and C than PG and SG. A little bit of an overexaggeration.

Also, I think a lot of the frustration with Jones was that he thought he was the go-to-guy late in that game. Sure I like a guy that wants the ball, but at some point, you have to recognize that Watford and Zeller were the guys who had mismatches on offense and both were having pretty solid games offensively.
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brumdog44 Jan 6 2012, 05:51 PM Post #344
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He passed the ball for the game winning shot against Kentucky and the half court length pass to VO against Ohio State. If he had forced the shot against Michigan, taking a bad shot, I could see the point....but it was a good shot.

Additionally, he's a senior and is averaging four shots less than when he was a junior and two shots less than when he was a freshman. He's accepted his diminished role.

Does he turn it over too much? Absolutely....he overhandles the ball. But some good things have come from that as well -- 481 career free throws and 346 assists.
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brumdog44 Jan 6 2012, 06:17 PM Post #345
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BTW:

VJ currently is fourth in IU's history in made free throws; he only needs 8 to move into third and has a chance to finish second if he were to make 74 more before the end of the year. He'll likely finish 7th or 8th all time in assists. He's currently 28th in scoring and has a decent shot to finish in the top 20.

Obviously he's not an all-time great. But he's served his purpose.
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