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IU vs. Michigan; Game Thread
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 5 2012, 08:44 PM (1,903 Views)
panchen_lama Jan 6 2012, 07:01 PM Post #346
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criticism can be a compliment as well. personally, for example, part of the reason i critique VJIII's lack of late game FT shooting is because i know he has it in him to make those. similarly, he has a good all round game, and there's more potential there to be brought out. i think we all would like to see that. on the other hand, what's the point any more of criticizing pritchard? he made one of two FTs (both ugly as sin) and i can't really see much, if any, room for potential advancement (throughout his game).
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 6 2012, 07:11 PM Post #347
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tkeena33
Jan 6 2012, 04:52 PM
dreachon
Jan 6 2012, 10:14 AM
What I guess I don't understand from the VJIII haters, is that we KNOW from the last 3 years when Jones is asked to run the offense for significant portions of the game, it leads to some turnovers for him. He's not a point guard. I don't know how many times I have to say this. So last night when he is asked to run the offense for much of the game and it leads to some turnovers, everyone freaks out and starts bagging on him. As if you all are surprised at what you are seeing. I just don't get it. Jones does the best he can with what he's asked to do.

This kind of reminds me of Marshall Strickland. Remember he came in as a SG but was asked to play point guard so the glorious Bracey Wright could play his natural position of SG. Anyone remember what happened with Marshall's senior year when he was finally able to move back to SG? He was absolutely fantastic. I remember thinking how nice it would have been to have him at SG his whole career.

Point is, this is what happens with lack of PG depth. Someone who's not a PG is asked to take on the responsibilities. You just have to live with it. To come on the board and start blasting Jones for not playing well in a position that's not natural for him is just silly.
So in a nutshell..."Don't criticize players or get frustrated with players because their trying their best." Is that it? Sounds like something a parent in an 8 year old Y-ball league would say.

For one, dumping everybody who criticizes VJIII into the "Verdell Haters" is stupid. Criticizing a player doesn't make you hater. It makes you a realist. I am definitely not a Verdell hater and really think that he has improved greatly over his four years. His jumpshot, his defense, his FT shooting...all improved. He (along with Hulls and Watford) has shown he can make clutch shots. However, one area he has not improved is TOs. He's handling the ball less this year, playing slightly fewer minutes per game than the last 2 years, and still averaging 3 TO per game. And last night he had some bonehead turnovers and bonehead shots in key situations. You cannot deny that, and if you do, you're a homer more than someone who points it out is a hater. Just pointing out bad decisions doesn't make you hater. For example, I love Oladipo and Hulls, but I would be the first to point out that Oladipo had some bonehead plays as well, esp. in the second half, and Hulls (who was almost invisible on offense) should NEVER give up the ball in a situation like last night when he knows the opponent will foul. We ran a specific inbound play to get him or Watford the ball, and he got the ball and passed it. Not smart.

Sure some people go over the top in their criticism, but that doesn't mean none of it's warranted. And that doesn't mean all people who criticize are "Verdell Haters." And constantly pointing out his flaws over the course of a game is just as extreme to say "I'm never reading any Verdell Jones criticism ever again." It's basketball. It's a sport. We are fans. Personally this board (and life) would be pretty sad if we just talked about how awesome we thought everything was and never about flaws or areas for improvement.
+1 and +999.

I have been one of the people who has really criticized VJ greatly, but it doesn't mean I hate him. I don't hate anyone on the IU team. Purdue team, maybe, OSU team most likely, MSU team a definite, but not a hater of any player on the IU team, especially VJ. I for one am pretty much offended by that. We, as fans, have the right to criticise a player if he doesn't perform to the level we thank he should, especially from our senior class. I grew in the Bob Knight era and if a player like VJ made those type of mistakes, he would be on the bench and not play again. We were use to watching Bob Knight coached teams execute and not make bone head plays like ill advised shots early in the shot clock during crutch time when another player is hot and driving in the middle into 3 players and getting the ball stolen or making a stupid pass in traffic during crutch time. Possessions are valuable, especially down the stretch when the game is on the line and mistakes like that can and will cost us games. We got away with one last night because Michigan played just as stupid as we did. Plus we had two guys that were extremely hot.

When do you VJ gay like lovers stop making excuses for him? In the first round of the NCAA tournament, playing a team we should beat by double digits, but turns it over down the stretch on three consectutive possessions and cost us the game. Then you will say the same thing we are saying.

I am not a hater, but I for one will be happy when he finally graduates as well as Pritchard.

By the way, I run into random IU fans on the street and 100% of them are happy the way the season is going and about everyone 99% of that sample population say something negative about VJ. I don't even bring it up first. It really is almost the first thing out of their mouth. So we haters on this board aren't the only one's, about 2000 people that I have ran into in the past month say the same thing.
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IUalltheWAY22 Jan 6 2012, 07:36 PM Post #348
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Bottom Line: When the game is on the line and IU needs a bucket, 95% of the time the ball will be in VJ's hands. He is the only player on this team (besides Watford when he is hot) who can create a decent shot for himself and he has made a career off of the pull-up midrange jumper, that is absolutely impossible to defend. Yes, he turns the ball over a lot and makes the occasional stupid play, but we would be nowhere without VJ this year. Leadership and his ability to WANT the ball late in games, unlike Hulls, have gotten us to 14-1
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blak_rob0 Jan 6 2012, 08:01 PM Post #349
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I've never seen so much bitching from a fan base whose team is 14-1.
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BTown11 Jan 6 2012, 08:04 PM Post #350
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blak_rob0
Jan 6 2012, 08:01 PM
I've never seen so much bitching from a fan base whose team is 14-1.
a chicken dinner for you sir.
Death to Signatures.
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hoosierinhogville Jan 6 2012, 08:08 PM Post #351
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blak_rob0
Jan 6 2012, 08:01 PM
I've never seen so much bitching from a fan base whose team is 14-1.
word
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hoosierinhogville Jan 6 2012, 08:13 PM Post #352
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HEY EVERYONE
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panchen_lama Jan 6 2012, 11:59 PM Post #353
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blak_rob0
Jan 6 2012, 08:01 PM
I've never seen so much bitching from a fan base whose team is 14-1.
cause 15-0 would be preferable.
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timpickett22 Jan 7 2012, 12:00 AM Post #354
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blak_rob0
Jan 6 2012, 08:01 PM
I've never seen so much bitching from a fan base whose team is 14-1.
Exactly.
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Come and join in song together, shout with might and main. Our beloved Alma Mater, sound her praise again. Gloriana Frangipana, E'er to her be true. She's the pride of Indiana, Hail to Old IU!

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tkeena33 Jan 7 2012, 12:38 AM Post #355
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Yeah guys let's all talk about how great it feels to be 14-1. That's way more interesting than an intelligent, reasonable discussion about legitimate areas for improvement.
Edited by tkeena33, Jan 7 2012, 12:39 AM.
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brumdog44 Jan 7 2012, 01:09 AM Post #356
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355 posts in a game thread and a win....and the win against the 13th rated team was only the third best team we've beaten.
#itsjustgettingstartedtoo
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 7 2012, 11:45 AM Post #357
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We wouldn't be 14-1 without Verdell Jones........end of argument.
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tkeena33 Jan 7 2012, 12:26 PM Post #358
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We wouldn't be 14-1 without Christian Watford, Victor Oladipo, Jordan Hulls, Cody Zeller, Derek Elston, Will Sheehey, or Remy Abell. Maybe even Matt Roth. Shit maybe even Tom Pritchard. All these players are off-limits to criticism. Let's talk Daniel Moore and Kory Barnett all day long. Keep things interesting.
Edited by tkeena33, Jan 7 2012, 12:26 PM.
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MFuelling4 Jan 7 2012, 01:12 PM Post #359
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Jan 6 2012, 07:11 PM
I am not a hater, but I for one will be happy when he finally graduates as well as Pritchard.

:huh:
Boiler Up
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tkeena33 Jan 7 2012, 02:10 PM Post #360
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I will not be glad to see him leave the team, as he is clearly one of our top 6 players. He just has some shortcomings that I can't just ignore because we're playing well now.
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