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VJIII Debate
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 13 2012, 09:42 PM (297 Views)
brumdog44 Jan 14 2012, 03:09 PM Post #31
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tAmazingHoosier
Jan 14 2012, 02:29 PM
I don't see our offense becoming stagnant because of Will Sheehey. That's somewhat of a ridiculous statement my man. When Will's in the game, we make our runs. Fact.

I think you need help understanding what a fact is.

Like, '25 deflections is not a fact, it's something I made up.'

Did we make our runs when Will was in the game against Minnesota? No. We were -4 in the time he was in. We were -3 when VJ was in. Doesn't mean that VJ had a better game, which would be ludicrous statement...but it does make what you said silly. Also, fact: We were -19 when Victor Oladipo was the floor LAST GAME.

http://www.btownbanners.com/gm-17-player-analysis-minnesota-edition/

Fact: for the season, the plus/minus numbers for Verdell in the game shows that the minutes he is playing (26 per game) is in line with his +/- stats. It also shows that the guy who is on the floor when we go on runs is CODY ZELLER....by far. Not even close. Sheehey has good +/- numbers overall, but take Cody Zeller off the floor and the next five players net +/- numbers don't even COMBINE to match his.

As a team, we have outscored our opponents by 295 points in 17 games; this puts us at +.43 points per minute.
When Zeller is on the floor, we are +.69 points per minute. Amazingly, when he is on the bench, we HAVE BEEN OUTSCORED by a point. So that puts him on the floor as a +.69 points per MINUTE, or an amazing difference of +27.6 points per 40 minutes.

Other players:

Hulls on the court: +.52; on the bench the team is +.24. Net +.28/minute, or +11.3 per 40 minutes.
Sheehey on the court: +.52; on the bench the team is +.12. Net +.12/minute, or +4.8 per 40 minutes.
Watford on the court: +.48; on the bench the team is +.36; Net +.12/minute, or +4.8 per 40 minutes.
Jones on the court: +.46; off the court +.38 (wow, we've actually been better with him on the court...imagine that); Net +.08, or +3.2 points per 40 minutes.
Elston: .44 on the court, .43 off; Net +.01
Roth on the court: +.42 on the court; .44 off the court; Net -.02.
VO: +.40 on the court, +.49 off; Net -.09.
Abell: +.24 on the court; +.47 off. Net: -.23
Pritchard: +.06 on the court; .55 off. Net: -.49, or -19.6 points per 40 minutes.
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brumdog44 Jan 14 2012, 03:14 PM Post #32
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tAmazingHoosier
Jan 14 2012, 02:44 PM
I never said it was a fact you fools. When someone says "like" something, that doesn't mean exactly. Nice comprehension skills, teacher.

Don't get all butt hurt because I don't write stats down during the game. Bottom line: VO is by FAR our best defender. You guys are going to look silly trying to prove otherwise. Good luck.
What's 'like' 25 deflections? 6? 8? 10?

And yes, it's obvious you've never kept stats in your life, so don't try guessing at them. It's your opinion that VJ isn't a D1 player, but, then again from your knowledge of Western Kentucky, I'm not sure you even know what schools are division 1.
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mongo Jan 14 2012, 04:41 PM Post #33
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I'm just going to say Verdell played a part in our wins against Kentucky, Michigan, and Ohio St. He is was he is, he's gone after this year.
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 14 2012, 05:23 PM Post #34
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brumdog44
Jan 14 2012, 02:35 PM
timpiçkett22
Jan 14 2012, 12:54 PM
:facepalm:
+1000.

He's averaging the fewer minutes he has in four years. He is putting up six shots per game after never putting up less than 8 shots per game, yet people say he has a 'I've got to get mine' personality. His defense has improved dramatically, but thanks for not noticing.

For those of you saying he is playing 'selfish', here are the shots/40 minutes of players on our team:

Sheehey: 14.9
Watford: 13.5
Oladipo: 13.4
Zeller: 11.9
Elston: 11.5
Hulls: 10.5
Abell: 10.4
Jones: 9.5
Roth: 8.8

And just so everyone is paying attention: Verdell Jones has a played a season high 34 minutes in three games. Those games? Kentucky, Ohio State, and Michigan. If he is soooo freaking horrible, then how is it that we could win with him on the court for 34 minutes against the #1 and #2 teams?

It is my opinion that he shouldn't be starting and would be best served coming off the bench as a sixth man, but the suggestions of basically burying him on the bench, him not being a D1 player are ludicrous.

Also, tamazing, I cross referenced the website (www.stuffimadeup.com) where you saw Oladipo had 4 steals and 25 deflections the last two games and it said Jones had 18 steals and 42 deflections during that time.
Brum, I don't think it how many shots he takes, it is when he takes them. He seems to want to take them when we are making a run late in game and he ends up taking an off balance fade away 18 footer, and it usually early in the shot clock. I remember we just took a 2 point lead mid second half against OSU and we get the ball back and he rushes down the court, with no advantage and launches up a contested fade away 18 footer with around 30 seconds still remaining on the shot clock. At that time, the ball should have went to Hulls because he was hot. He either wants to try to put a dagger in the other team or he is a glory hog. Either way, he makes pour judgements on the court, mishandles the ball, dribbles with his head down, forces things way too much, and is only an average defensive player. Yes he has improved in that area, but as a senior we expect much, much better play from him than what we are getting. I don't mind him shooting, but he he needs to be open and shoot to his strengths, the mid range jumper. He also needs to make sure he is hot when he takes a shot down the stretch or he needs to find the hot guy.
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Rockspeed Jan 14 2012, 06:06 PM Post #35
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I think VJIII is the best player we have... for the opposing team. That being said, Im always fascinated with how he ends up on the floor so much. He must find all the slick spots... poor unlucky guy.
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dedicatedIUfan Jan 14 2012, 08:42 PM Post #36
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brumdog44 Jan 14 2012, 09:02 PM Post #37
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Dedicated -- one thing you have to consider is WHY he is taking that shots. Who besides him in the past has shown that they want to take that shot? Watford's shot against Kentucky came after good dribble penetration by Jones and pretty much every important end of the game shot the first three years was by Jones.

In terms of players shooting at the end of the game when they are hot --I don't see Hulls trying to take it over when he is hot. It's not in his nature.....I do remember him turning the ball over twice in six seconds in the last minute against Penn State and in the last six minutes not taking a single shot from the field despite being 7 of 9 from the three point line. The truth is that Matt Roth seems to have more desire to have the ball at the end of games than Hulls does.

Yes, Jones handles the ball too much at the end of a game...but I don't see many others calling for the ball. I recall Hulls inexplicably giving the ball up to Jones in the closing seconds of the Michigan game, which speaks a little bit to Hulls' game: incredibly efficient with great shooting ability, but seems to shy away at some big moments. It something that hopefully he'll improve on.
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tkeena33 Jan 15 2012, 02:53 AM Post #38
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brumdog44
Jan 14 2012, 09:02 PM
Dedicated -- one thing you have to consider is WHY he is taking that shots. Who besides him in the past has shown that they want to take that shot? Watford's shot against Kentucky came after good dribble penetration by Jones and pretty much every important end of the game shot the first three years was by Jones.

In terms of players shooting at the end of the game when they are hot --I don't see Hulls trying to take it over when he is hot. It's not in his nature.....I do remember him turning the ball over twice in six seconds in the last minute against Penn State and in the last six minutes not taking a single shot from the field despite being 7 of 9 from the three point line. The truth is that Matt Roth seems to have more desire to have the ball at the end of games than Hulls does.

Yes, Jones handles the ball too much at the end of a game...but I don't see many others calling for the ball. I recall Hulls inexplicably giving the ball up to Jones in the closing seconds of the Michigan game, which speaks a little bit to Hulls' game: incredibly efficient with great shooting ability, but seems to shy away at some big moments. It something that hopefully he'll improve on.
You watch last game bro? Hulls single-handedly kept us in that game. Without him that game never gets to one possession.
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obatskii Jan 15 2012, 03:00 AM Post #39
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tkeena33
Jan 15 2012, 02:53 AM
brumdog44
Jan 14 2012, 09:02 PM
Dedicated -- one thing you have to consider is WHY he is taking that shots. Who besides him in the past has shown that they want to take that shot? Watford's shot against Kentucky came after good dribble penetration by Jones and pretty much every important end of the game shot the first three years was by Jones.

In terms of players shooting at the end of the game when they are hot --I don't see Hulls trying to take it over when he is hot. It's not in his nature.....I do remember him turning the ball over twice in six seconds in the last minute against Penn State and in the last six minutes not taking a single shot from the field despite being 7 of 9 from the three point line. The truth is that Matt Roth seems to have more desire to have the ball at the end of games than Hulls does.

Yes, Jones handles the ball too much at the end of a game...but I don't see many others calling for the ball. I recall Hulls inexplicably giving the ball up to Jones in the closing seconds of the Michigan game, which speaks a little bit to Hulls' game: incredibly efficient with great shooting ability, but seems to shy away at some big moments. It something that hopefully he'll improve on.
You watch last game bro? Hulls single-handedly kept us in that game. Without him that game never gets to one possession.
Maybe in the 2nd half, but he played very poorly the first half and overall defensively. Jordy will play well tomorrow though...I have a feeling.
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