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The Death Penalty; New discussion
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 17 2012, 10:18 AM (230 Views)
Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 10:18 AM Post #1
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I began watching a new show on the I.D. Channel (great channel if you haven't checked it out already), called "I Didn't Do It", which details and depicts the factual stories of people who are wrongfully convicted. Wow....what a tragedy! In the case I watched last night, 2 kids (18 years old) were wrongfully convicted of murder, and they were TRULY innocent...not even connected in any way to the crime or the actual murderer. One of the kids, Richard Garber, was brutally beaten in prison, almost died, and suffered massive brain damage as a result...he will never be even a resemblance of himself.

Both boys were released 12 years later when the real killer found Jesus, confessed, and the prosecutor easily proved that he really was the killer. 12 years of their lives, and in Richard's case, any hope of a reasonable quality of life...taken from them.

When Jaycee Lee Dugard was kidnapped and had 20 years of her life taken from her and her family, it was a national tragedy that evoked outrage coast to coast...and rightfully so. In the case of these 2 men, they experienced the same level of tragedy & trauma, (more so in Richard's case) and my guess is that none of you have ever even heard of them, nor had I. They certainly didn't receive the level of national sympathy that Dugard's case did, and other cases like hers.

As sad as this is, it is even worse in the many cases where the wrongfully convicted receive the death penalty, only to be exonerated after their execution. Nobody would accept the Jaycee Dugard case as "reasonable", however many, Lars included on this board, have simply accepted the wrongful executions as reasonable and necessary to maintain our justice system. Easy for those people to say that, having likely never had someone unjustly taken from them....tell Jaycee Dugard, other victims, and their families that their loss is "acceptable" and tell me what response you get.

I hold the wrongfully convicted in the same regard, which furthers my stance against the death penalty...death is not reversible.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jan 17 2012, 10:55 AM Post #2
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Getting rid of the death penalty doesn't solve the issue you have. The 2 boys you mention (LOVE the ID channel by the way) would have simply been convicted to life in prison instead of death. They still spend 12 years in prison. Literally, nothing about your story changes.
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Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 11:02 AM Post #3
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dreachon
Jan 17 2012, 10:55 AM
Getting rid of the death penalty doesn't solve the issue you have. The 2 boys you mention (LOVE the ID channel by the way) would have simply been convicted to life in prison instead of death. They still spend 12 years in prison. Literally, nothing about your story changes.
completely true...I used that example to make the comparison to Dugard. Certainly most would rather be turned loose 12 years later than killed....ask Dugard's family if they would have rather found out that Jaycee was killed. You will never get that time back, however you will have a life left to live if your conviction is overturned...nothing you can do about it after your death.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Bobobinc Jan 17 2012, 11:51 AM Post #4
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Never been a fan. Seems that killing someone for killing someone doesn't make sense......besides the good point Gray has.

Everything else in our society is configured to allow for the one person in a million.....except this.

The other point is the state of the prison system. The punishment is taking away your freedom.......not being raped or beaten.
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MsJazen Jan 17 2012, 01:27 PM Post #5
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Bobobinc
Jan 17 2012, 11:51 AM
Never been a fan. Seems that killing someone for killing someone doesn't make sense......besides the good point Gray has.

Everything else in our society is configured to allow for the one person in a million.....except this.

The other point is the state of the prison system. The punishment is taking away your freedom.......not being raped or beaten.
I agree 100% with every thing you just said. wtg
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dreachon Jan 17 2012, 02:45 PM Post #6
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Mr Gray
Jan 17 2012, 11:02 AM
dreachon
Jan 17 2012, 10:55 AM
Getting rid of the death penalty doesn't solve the issue you have. The 2 boys you mention (LOVE the ID channel by the way) would have simply been convicted to life in prison instead of death. They still spend 12 years in prison. Literally, nothing about your story changes.
completely true...I used that example to make the comparison to Dugard. Certainly most would rather be turned loose 12 years later than killed....ask Dugard's family if they would have rather found out that Jaycee was killed. You will never get that time back, however you will have a life left to live if your conviction is overturned...nothing you can do about it after your death.
What is the average amount of time an inmate spends in jail before actually being put to death?
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Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 02:55 PM Post #7
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dreachon
Jan 17 2012, 02:45 PM
Mr Gray
Jan 17 2012, 11:02 AM
dreachon
Jan 17 2012, 10:55 AM
Getting rid of the death penalty doesn't solve the issue you have. The 2 boys you mention (LOVE the ID channel by the way) would have simply been convicted to life in prison instead of death. They still spend 12 years in prison. Literally, nothing about your story changes.
completely true...I used that example to make the comparison to Dugard. Certainly most would rather be turned loose 12 years later than killed....ask Dugard's family if they would have rather found out that Jaycee was killed. You will never get that time back, however you will have a life left to live if your conviction is overturned...nothing you can do about it after your death.
What is the average amount of time an inmate spends in jail before actually being put to death?
probably 10 years
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Jazen Jan 17 2012, 03:02 PM Post #8
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Holy shit, you had me at ID Channel. What is this??

Me needs to find out..this is right up my alley of interest..
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Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 04:01 PM Post #9
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Jazen
Jan 17 2012, 03:02 PM
Holy shit, you had me at ID Channel. What is this??

Me needs to find out..this is right up my alley of interest..
glad to know I'm not alone on my love of the ID channel. Here is a link http://investigation.discovery.com/videos/i-didnt-do-it-im-innocent.html
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Jazen Jan 17 2012, 04:04 PM Post #10
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Thanks aaron. Much appreciated, can't believe I've missed this.
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Jazen Jan 17 2012, 04:26 PM Post #11
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Mr Gray
Jan 17 2012, 10:18 AM
tell Jaycee Dugard, other victims, and their families that their loss is "acceptable" and tell me what response you get.

The wrongly convicted, let alone wrongly executed, will always be a tragedy. However, with today's forensics, DNA, video cameras on almost every public street, putting the right people away has most definitely become more refined in, unfortunately, an imperfect world.

On the other hand, I've been alive long enough to see at least two murderers (both premeditated) walk out of the courtroom; O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony. I watched both trials in their entirety (along with many others since), and I can tell you that Simpson wouldn't have been convicted if the crime were caught on tape. L.A.'s black community was still seething over the Rodney King case (and rightfully so) in which four white police officers were acquitted after severely beating him on tape for the whole world to see. The Simpson jury (which was predominantly black) simply flew the bird at the justice system and let him walk.

Regarding Casey Anthony, her own parents mucked up the waters by lying on the stand; George (her father) "didn't have an affair with River Cruise in the midst off all of this", and Cindy (Casey's mother) lied about the chloroform/chlorophyll searches on the home computer. It was proven she was at work at the time of the searches, but she still held her ground on the stand. IMO, the jury said "fuck it, they all deserve each other", and just wanted to go home. Sad that the little girl will never have justice, but my point is that there are two sides to the tragedies in our justice system.

It's absolutely horrible that anyone gets convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and it's sad that murderers are allowed to murder again. I really don't see any winners here.

Regarding the death penalty, I'd rather reserve it for proven child molesters over any type of other offender. I'd install the Express Lane to the chair myself, and flip the switch with a smile on my face. In other words, I'm pro DP in this day and age with all of the methods we have to prove their guilt.

But it damn well better be proven.

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eelbor Jan 17 2012, 04:41 PM Post #12
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Jazen
Jan 17 2012, 04:26 PM
But it damn well better be proven.

That is one of the catches I have with it.

The second catch is that the law is not applied evenly. If you have enough money your chances of getting the death penalty drops regardless of your guilt.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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IUCOLTFAN Jan 17 2012, 04:49 PM Post #13
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I'm still trying to figure out what the Jaycee Duggard case has to do with murder and the death penalty??

Kidnapped by a weirdo = being wrongly convicted of a crime by the state......??????? I don't see the connection.
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Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 04:52 PM Post #14
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Jazen
Jan 17 2012, 04:26 PM
Mr Gray
Jan 17 2012, 10:18 AM
tell Jaycee Dugard, other victims, and their families that their loss is "acceptable" and tell me what response you get.

The wrongly convicted, let alone wrongly executed, will always be a tragedy. However, with today's forensics, DNA, video cameras on almost every public street, putting the right people away has most definitely become more refined in, unfortunately, an imperfect world.

On the other hand, I've been alive long enough to see at least two murderers (both premeditated) walk out of the courtroom; O.J. Simpson and Casey Anthony. I watched both trials in their entirety (along with many others since), and I can tell you that Simpson wouldn't have been convicted if the crime were caught on tape. L.A.'s black community was still seething over the Rodney King case (and rightfully so) in which four white police officers were acquitted after severely beating him on tape for the whole world to see. The Simpson jury (which was predominantly black) simply flew the bird at the justice system and let him walk.

Regarding Casey Anthony, her own parents mucked up the waters by lying on the stand; George (her father) "didn't have an affair with River Cruise in the midst off all of this", and Cindy (Casey's mother) lied about the chloroform/chlorophyll searches on the home computer. It was proven she was at work at the time of the searches, but she still held her ground on the stand. IMO, the jury said "fuck it, they all deserve each other", and just wanted to go home. Sad that the little girl will never have justice, but my point is that there are two sides to the tragedies in our justice system.

It's absolutely horrible that anyone gets convicted of a crime they didn't commit, and it's sad that murderers are allowed to murder again. I really don't see any winners here.

Regarding the death penalty, I'd rather reserve it for proven child molesters over any type of other offender. I'd install the Express Lane to the chair myself, and flip the switch with a smile on my face. In other words, I'm pro DP in this day and age with all of the methods we have to prove their guilt.

But it damn well better be proven.

so are you saying that we should never have a death penalty conviction with circumstantial evidence?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jan 17 2012, 05:13 PM Post #15
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IUCOLTFAN
Jan 17 2012, 04:49 PM
I'm still trying to figure out what the Jaycee Duggard case has to do with murder and the death penalty??

Kidnapped by a weirdo = being wrongly convicted of a crime by the state......??????? I don't see the connection.
Dugard had 20 years of her life taken away from her, for no fault of her own. During that time she was held captive, saw very little of the outside world, performed some menial labor for no wages, was mentally and physically abuse, and was raped.

Richard Garber had 12 years of his life taken away. During that time he was held captive, saw almost nothing of the outside world, performed some menial labor for no wages, was mentally abused, physically abused (to the point of causing permanent and severe brain damage) and likely raped.

Dugard's scenario is a national tragedy to which nobody in their right mind can find justification for.
Garber's scenario is known to almost nobody, receives no national sympathy, but sadly is considered "justified" by many because it is the exception and not the rule of our justice system.

Garber is technically alive, however his life is gone...he can't even feed himself because of the prison beating. Some say that they would rather have 1 wrong conviction than have 100 killers on the loose....I'll bet those same people wouldn't say that if that 1 wrongly convicted person was someone close to them. I'll bet Garber's mother would rather have 10,000 killers on the loose than have to watch her son in a wheel chair gazing off into space because our justice system didn't work.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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