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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,562 Views)
brumdog44 Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM Post #136
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BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
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eelbor Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM Post #137
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:43 PM
eelbor
Apr 17 2012, 12:42 PM
?
Self defense does not give you the carte blanche right to fire at will. Self defense of oneself does not give one the right to endanger innocent people. You can not fire in a negligent, reckless manner.

I assume you have by now heard Gingrich's speech where he says that gun ownership is not a right given by the government, but rather is a "God given right." He also stated that it was his goal to bring this "human right" to every nation. Do you agree with this?
Me? or Aaron?
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2012, 03:46 PM Post #138
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eelbor
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:43 PM
eelbor
Apr 17 2012, 12:42 PM
?
Self defense does not give you the carte blanche right to fire at will. Self defense of oneself does not give one the right to endanger innocent people. You can not fire in a negligent, reckless manner.

I assume you have by now heard Gingrich's speech where he says that gun ownership is not a right given by the government, but rather is a "God given right." He also stated that it was his goal to bring this "human right" to every nation. Do you agree with this?
Me? or Aaron?
aaron. You're as confused by his statement as everyone else is.
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Mr Gray Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM Post #139
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Apr 17 2012, 03:53 PM Post #140
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:43 PM
eelbor
Apr 17 2012, 12:42 PM
?
Self defense does not give you the carte blanche right to fire at will. Self defense of oneself does not give one the right to endanger innocent people. You can not fire in a negligent, reckless manner.

I assume you have by now heard Gingrich's speech where he says that gun ownership is not a right given by the government, but rather is a "God given right." He also stated that it was his goal to bring this "human right" to every nation. Do you agree with this?
someone firing a weapon in the heat of a true legitimate life or death self defense situation would not be accused of being negligent or reckless.

Newt's statement: I am not in a position to make claims as to what should be considered a "God given right". From a religious perspective, it is my opinion that God doesn't guarantee us any "rights" while on this Earth.

Newt's idea of bringing gun freedom to "every Nation" is fine with me, as long as he doesn't intend to enact this crusade with American taxpayer dollars.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM Post #141
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Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
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Mr Gray Apr 17 2012, 03:59 PM Post #142
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
don't start....I'm not aware of any cases either way, but it makes perfect sense to me that if you start a confrontation that ends in innocent bystanders getting hurt, you are responsible regardless of the instrument used.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 17 2012, 04:01 PM Post #143
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What do aarons opinions of a very detailed law have to do with this case? You guys are arguing some ghost case that may or may not have even happened somewhere? Everyone has given their opinion on the Martin case, why are we now arguing hypotheticals?
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Mr Gray Apr 17 2012, 04:05 PM Post #144
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
btw brum, here is my exact quote that you are trying to twist.

Quote:
 
no...my guess would be that Martin would be guilty of that crime as well, as he created the need for self-defense which lead to the shooting


what about the phrase "my guess" made you think that I was speaking as some legal authority with a list of cases and precedents?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2012, 04:10 PM Post #145
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Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 04:05 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
btw brum, here is my exact quote that you are trying to twist.

Quote:
 
no...my guess would be that Martin would be guilty of that crime as well, as he created the need for self-defense which lead to the shooting


what about the phrase "my guess" made you think that I was speaking as some legal authority with a list of cases and precedents?
Then obviously "your guess" is baseless and incorrect.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2012, 04:11 PM Post #146
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Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:59 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
don't start....I'm not aware of any cases either way, but it makes perfect sense to me that if you start a confrontation that ends in innocent bystanders getting hurt, you are responsible regardless of the instrument used.
I didn't start it. I responded to a statement you made about Martin being charged if Zimmerman's stray bullet hit someone.
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eelbor Apr 17 2012, 04:15 PM Post #147
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IUCOLTFAN
Apr 17 2012, 04:01 PM
What do aarons opinions of a very detailed law have to do with this case? You guys are arguing some ghost case that may or may not have even happened somewhere? Everyone has given their opinion on the Martin case, why are we now arguing hypotheticals?
:JOBE: Thread Police Alert :JOBE:


Do you really want me to start a new one? I just find it intersting how two people who are both reasonably intelligent can come away with such differing opinions on a subject's side issues. We have made this discussion more general, and less specific to the Zimmerman case. No worse than discussing cherry phosphates, lemon fizzes, and sodapops (take that you word nazi motherfuckers).
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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dreachon Apr 17 2012, 04:45 PM Post #148
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What the fuck is a cherry phosphate?
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eelbor Apr 17 2012, 04:52 PM Post #149
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dreachon
Apr 17 2012, 04:45 PM
What the fuck is a cherry phosphate?
This. It is a cherry sodapop/fizzy thing.


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Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Apr 17 2012, 04:55 PM Post #150
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brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 04:10 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 04:05 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:56 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 17 2012, 03:48 PM
brumdog44
Apr 17 2012, 03:45 PM
BTW, aaron, I asked you to cite me cases in which a person not firing a gun was charged with the murder used in self defense with that gun. Do you have any? Your contention was that if a Zimmerman fired and he was defending himself, that Martin would be charged. Any proof, or is that just some random statement you are making?
I'm not aware of any cases, but it was also more than a "random statement".
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
btw brum, here is my exact quote that you are trying to twist.

Quote:
 
no...my guess would be that Martin would be guilty of that crime as well, as he created the need for self-defense which lead to the shooting


what about the phrase "my guess" made you think that I was speaking as some legal authority with a list of cases and precedents?
Then obviously "your guess" is baseless and incorrect.
obvious to you I guess....because I'm sure you have a ton of experience prosecuting such cases
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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