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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,559 Views)
eelbor Apr 20 2012, 11:45 AM Post #181
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HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 09:20 AM
A picture of his bloodied head definitely helps Zimmerman's case.
Meh, not so sure. I know that very minor head wounds bleed like you would not believe, so there is no way for me to judge the injury. I will leave it for the doctors report and the jury to decide.
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM Post #182
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eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:45 AM
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Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 09:20 AM
A picture of his bloodied head definitely helps Zimmerman's case.
Meh, not so sure. I know that very minor head wounds bleed like you would not believe, so there is no way for me to judge the injury. I will leave it for the doctors report and the jury to decide.
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
no way eel....I am sure you know the power of visualization....ask your marketing department about it. It absolutely impacts a jury.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Apr 20 2012, 11:56 AM Post #183
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Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM
eelbor
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Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 09:20 AM
A picture of his bloodied head definitely helps Zimmerman's case.
Meh, not so sure. I know that very minor head wounds bleed like you would not believe, so there is no way for me to judge the injury. I will leave it for the doctors report and the jury to decide.
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
no way eel....I am sure you know the power of visualization....ask your marketing department about it. It absolutely impacts a jury.
Perhaps you are right. I am thinking in the court of public opinion these are helpful. I would think if this is all they have to prove Zimmerman's injuries the prosecutor would have a field day with these images.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 20 2012, 12:02 PM Post #184
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eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:56 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:45 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 09:20 AM
A picture of his bloodied head definitely helps Zimmerman's case.
Meh, not so sure. I know that very minor head wounds bleed like you would not believe, so there is no way for me to judge the injury. I will leave it for the doctors report and the jury to decide.
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
no way eel....I am sure you know the power of visualization....ask your marketing department about it. It absolutely impacts a jury.
Perhaps you are right. I am thinking in the court of public opinion these are helpful. I would think if this is all they have to prove Zimmerman's injuries the prosecutor would have a field day with these images.
....+ a witness. It is not all they have. And they have a complicated situation with a complicated state law. People have walked on bigger charges/evidence than this.
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Mr Gray Apr 20 2012, 12:14 PM Post #185
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eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:56 AM
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Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:45 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 09:20 AM
A picture of his bloodied head definitely helps Zimmerman's case.
Meh, not so sure. I know that very minor head wounds bleed like you would not believe, so there is no way for me to judge the injury. I will leave it for the doctors report and the jury to decide.
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
no way eel....I am sure you know the power of visualization....ask your marketing department about it. It absolutely impacts a jury.
Perhaps you are right. I am thinking in the court of public opinion these are helpful. I would think if this is all they have to prove Zimmerman's injuries the prosecutor would have a field day with these images.
I think they would certainly try to have a field day, but the burden of proof is on them, so they would somehow have to prove that those injuries weren't serious, weren't caused by Martin, or simply aren't important....and everytime they do, the defense is going to make sure the jury sees that photo.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Apr 20 2012, 12:58 PM Post #186
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Apr 20 2012, 11:40 AM
I agree that head wounds bleed like crazy even with a small cut, but I do not know of any cases where the back of someone's head cuts open and starts bleeding spontaneously. Unless you are saying that he cut himself to cover up his racist black hunting expedition, obviously he sustained an injury to the back of his head in the scuffle.
Come on, if there was a scuffle than he could have received those cuts from simply wrestling with Martin on the ground. Way different than getting your head bashed in.
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eelbor Apr 20 2012, 12:59 PM Post #187
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Apr 20 2012, 12:02 PM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:56 AM
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Apr 20 2012, 11:47 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:45 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 11:42 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 11:12 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 20 2012, 10:26 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 10:14 AM
eelbor
Apr 20 2012, 10:08 AM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
you must admit that having this photo makes his case better than the previous assertions that he had no injuries at all.
Bloody scalp is better than no bloody scalp, yes.
So you were wrrrrrrrrrrrrr.... not right? :D
About what? I have not said anything on the Zimmerman case other than it absolutely needs to go to a jury. He may be innocent, he may be guilty, but the only way to know that is for the facts to come out. Read through the other thread and see what I had to say. About the worst of it was accusing Aaron of being shortsided because he believed incorrectly that no person would ever be CHARGED with a crime when they shot a bystander while in the midst of defending them selves when the police agreed the shots were fired in self defense.
You said you weren't sure that picture would make any difference. Sure it will. It helps substantiate Zimmerman's story, regardless of the amount of blood. The average person will think that looks pretty bad. Did you catch the Fonze reference?
Ultimately, the picture itself will hold little or no weight. The doctors report of any injuries and their testimony on the pictures will hold quite a bit more sway.
no way eel....I am sure you know the power of visualization....ask your marketing department about it. It absolutely impacts a jury.
Perhaps you are right. I am thinking in the court of public opinion these are helpful. I would think if this is all they have to prove Zimmerman's injuries the prosecutor would have a field day with these images.
....+ a witness. It is not all they have. And they have a complicated situation with a complicated state law. People have walked on bigger charges/evidence than this.
Absolutely they have. Which is why I will not rush to judgement. We have not seen any of the evidence they will present in the trial.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Apr 20 2012, 01:02 PM Post #188
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dreachon
Apr 20 2012, 12:58 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 11:40 AM
I agree that head wounds bleed like crazy even with a small cut, but I do not know of any cases where the back of someone's head cuts open and starts bleeding spontaneously. Unless you are saying that he cut himself to cover up his racist black hunting expedition, obviously he sustained an injury to the back of his head in the scuffle.
Come on, if there was a scuffle than he could have received those cuts from simply wrestling with Martin on the ground. Way different than getting your head bashed in.
burden of proof dreach....If Zimmerman's claim could potentially match up with his injuries (which they most likely could), the prosecution has to prove that they don't....Zimmerman doesn't have to prove that they do.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Apr 20 2012, 01:04 PM Post #189
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Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 01:02 PM
dreachon
Apr 20 2012, 12:58 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 11:40 AM
I agree that head wounds bleed like crazy even with a small cut, but I do not know of any cases where the back of someone's head cuts open and starts bleeding spontaneously. Unless you are saying that he cut himself to cover up his racist black hunting expedition, obviously he sustained an injury to the back of his head in the scuffle.
Come on, if there was a scuffle than he could have received those cuts from simply wrestling with Martin on the ground. Way different than getting your head bashed in.
burden of proof dreach....If Zimmerman's claim could potentially match up with his injuries (which they most likely could), the prosecution has to prove that they don't....Zimmerman doesn't have to prove that they do.
I agree with everything you said except for "which they most likely could". How can you make that claim?
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Mr Gray Apr 20 2012, 01:09 PM Post #190
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Apr 20 2012, 01:04 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 01:02 PM
dreachon
Apr 20 2012, 12:58 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 20 2012, 11:40 AM
I agree that head wounds bleed like crazy even with a small cut, but I do not know of any cases where the back of someone's head cuts open and starts bleeding spontaneously. Unless you are saying that he cut himself to cover up his racist black hunting expedition, obviously he sustained an injury to the back of his head in the scuffle.
Come on, if there was a scuffle than he could have received those cuts from simply wrestling with Martin on the ground. Way different than getting your head bashed in.
burden of proof dreach....If Zimmerman's claim could potentially match up with his injuries (which they most likely could), the prosecution has to prove that they don't....Zimmerman doesn't have to prove that they do.
I agree with everything you said except for "which they most likely could". How can you make that claim?
it's simple: If you had your head slammed against the concrete, it could cause either a minor injury, major injury, or anything in between....so no matter how you classify Zimmerman's injury, he can have a substantiated claim that it was caused as he said it was. Unless the doctor says that the injury is clearly as a result of a knife blade or something like that, he has the truth, and the prosecution has to prove otherwise.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Jazen Apr 20 2012, 01:18 PM Post #191
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..and offers an apology to the victim's family. As you'll hear in his "apology", he states that he thought Martin was either his own age, or a little younger, and that he didn't know if Martin was armed or not.

My problem with this statement is, as I recall in the 911 tape, that Zimmerman stated that Martin looked like a teenager up to no good, and then later told authorities that Martin was going for his (Zimmerman's) gun. Wouldn't that contradict Zimmerman's statement that he 'didn't know' if Martin was armed or not? If Martin was going for GZ's gun BEFORE he shot him, apparently Zimmerman must have figured out the youth wasn't armed at all.


Edited by Jazen, Apr 20 2012, 01:26 PM.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 20 2012, 02:03 PM Post #192
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Is dreach claiming those injuries happened sometime other than during the struggle? Why is no one mentioning the witness that claims to have saw Martin on top of Zimmerman? That with the head wounds should start showing that maybe Zim is telling the truth. We will never know exactly how hard or to what degree his head may or may not have been getting slammed but it appears that something happened. Maybe, as dreach claimed. they were in the grass? Maybe some chiggers bit him and the wounds started bleeding at the perfect time?

Dreach, for the sake of this case, does it legally matter if it was concrete, wood, or hard soil that his head was banged against? There is a witness that claims to have seen it happen and now we have photo proof that SOMETHING did happen to his head yet, to you, there still isn't at least some evidence that Trayvon may have been in control of this struggle at some point? The state made the charges, now the state has the burden of proof....not Zimmermann. He gave his version, the witness(es) will give theirs, and the state will try to prove their charges.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 20 2012, 02:09 PM Post #193
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..and offers an apology to the victim's family. As you'll hear in his "apology", he states that he thought Martin was either his own age, or a little younger, and that he didn't know if Martin was armed or not.

My problem with this statement is, as I recall in the 911 tape, that Zimmerman stated that Martin looked like a teenager up to no good, and then later told authorities that Martin was going for his (Zimmerman's) gun. Wouldn't that contradict Zimmerman's statement that he 'didn't know' if Martin was armed or not? If Martin was going for GZ's gun BEFORE he shot him, apparently Zimmerman must have figured out the youth wasn't armed at all.


At that point, would it matter? If he was going for his gun then woudnt Zim have reason to think that he would use it on him? Not sure why that would matter at that point.

If I was carrying a gun and got into a confrontation that turned physical and the dude I'm wrestling/fighting trys to grab my weapon I am not gonna lie there and wonder if he is armed himself....by that time the fight is over and I probably lost.
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Jazen Apr 20 2012, 02:18 PM Post #194
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I think the point is here that anything GZ said in the 911 tape and thereafter, in this case the bond hearing, can be held against him in the actual trial.

It sounds like to me there's already some small contradictions coming out. Whether it has a major impact in the ultimate jury's decision is yet to be seen. Of course, like everyone has mentioned, we've not heard all of the facts obviously, or have no idea what Z's defense will actually be.

I've watched a lot of court trials, and a common thread with a defendant's story changing is hardly ever a good thing. I realize the contradictions are minute, but you just never really know how a jury will respond.

I will say one thing, I've been watching all morning and the Martin family is livid, stating basically what I've stated, and the fact that they believe his apology is nothing more than self serving.
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dreachon Apr 20 2012, 02:27 PM Post #195
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Of course I believe the wounds happened in a struggle. And yes it matters if it happened in concrete or grass, because Zimmerman said it happened in concrete.

My only point is that if his head was being slammed into concrete to the point that Zimmerman thought his life was in danger and his only option was to shoot Martin, I'd expect significant injuries. If the there aren't significant injuries, I question whether Martin had to die.
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