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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,555 Views)
MsJazen Apr 26 2012, 04:57 PM Post #241
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This page contains a lot of information on the case. Valhall is extremely interesting to read and she always backs her articles up with all of the sources.

Here is a part of one of the articles:

Quote:
 
Let’s back up and look at the information we actually have and try to make sense of it.

First let’s look at the history. George Zimmerman is the son of a retired judge. He has 4 years of education in criminal justice. He was arrested several years ago for resisting an officer via violence – assault and battery on an officer. Whether it be from daddy’s connections or a really good lawyer or both…he got off. Had he not gotten off, he would not have been packing a gun on February 26th, 2012 and, barring some type of Final Destination curse, Trayvon Martin would still be alive. At least we can say, he would not be shot to death by George Zimmerman.

Then we have George’s behavior over the past year to 15 months. George has been described as a “habitual 911 caller”. Starting around January of last year he was repetitively calling 911 for this and that and the other…mainly the other. To be quite honest, George’s behavior as the 911 call record reflects, was that of a “wanna-be-cop”…who had beat another cop up on a prior occasion and was basically relegated to playing neighborhood watchdog. Please note, he was playing community cop when there was no neighborhood watch program.


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IUCOLTFAN Apr 27 2012, 01:54 PM Post #242
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Apr 26 2012, 04:57 PM
This page contains a lot of information on the case. Valhall is extremely interesting to read and she always backs her articles up with all of the sources.

Here is a part of one of the articles:

Quote:
 
Let’s back up and look at the information we actually have and try to make sense of it.

First let’s look at the history. George Zimmerman is the son of a retired judge. He has 4 years of education in criminal justice. He was arrested several years ago for resisting an officer via violence – assault and battery on an officer. Whether it be from daddy’s connections or a really good lawyer or both…he got off. Had he not gotten off, he would not have been packing a gun on February 26th, 2012 and, barring some type of Final Destination curse, Trayvon Martin would still be alive. At least we can say, he would not be shot to death by George Zimmerman.

Then we have George’s behavior over the past year to 15 months. George has been described as a “habitual 911 caller”. Starting around January of last year he was repetitively calling 911 for this and that and the other…mainly the other. To be quite honest, George’s behavior as the 911 call record reflects, was that of a “wanna-be-cop”…who had beat another cop up on a prior occasion and was basically relegated to playing neighborhood watchdog. Please note, he was playing community cop when there was no neighborhood watch program.


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Very unbiased excerpt :huh:
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dreachon Apr 27 2012, 02:11 PM Post #243
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Let's play a game. Let's take all the facts in the case and combine them with all of the witness reports in the case (which for this purpose, we'll take as TRUE) and see if we can piece together the incident. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Going off of memory.

1) Martin is walking back home talking to his girlfriend on the phone when he notices a car slowly following him
2) Zimmerman notices Martin, thinks he looks suspicious due to a recent string of break-ins by young black men
3) Zimmerman calls 911
4) Martin runs from Zimmerman
5) Zimmerman gets out of his car and chases Martin on foot against the dispatchers order
6) WITNESS - Martin's girlfriend - Says suddenly the man was back and heard him ask Martin what he was doing here. Hears a scuffle and is then cut off as the phone was dropped.
7) WITNESS - Male neighbor - sees Martin beating up Zimerman and Zimmerman asking him for help. Goes upstairs to call 911. Martin is already dead when he looks out the window from upstairs.
8) WITNESS - Female neighbor - Here's someone screaming for help, thinks it's Martin but isn't sure. By the time she makes it to the window, Martin is dead in the grass and Zimmerman is standing over him straddling his body.

So there it is. The entire incident. It seems the only thing that's really in dispute is that Zimmerman says Martin double backed and started attacking him. I guess that's what the entire case hinges on then.
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TheBliver Apr 27 2012, 04:59 PM Post #244
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lets not forget, every witness, and you're missing a couple, said they saw/after the fact/ the confrontation happen in the grass. zimmerman has stated his head was getting slammed against the concrete, when did that happen? There were 3 girls living in a house right next to the confrontation/shooting. All 3 have stated they didn't see anything, but heard the screams for help and believe it was martin yelling, but they didn't see anything. They saw zimmerman also after he shot martin and asked what was going on. Zimmerman told them to go inside or something like that. There was also the little boy walking his dog that said it was martin on top of zimmerman.
Edited by TheBliver, Apr 27 2012, 05:02 PM.
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eelbor Apr 27 2012, 05:02 PM Post #245
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I want to know why so many unbiased gun aficionado's are giving so much too Zimmerman's defense. 200k, really?
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HoosierLars Apr 27 2012, 06:28 PM Post #246
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How many crimes are prevented when it is well known that a community has an active neighborhood watch? I would care to wager that even more crimes are prevented when criminals know some folks are armed. We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and I want my neighbors looking out for suspicious people.
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dreachon Apr 27 2012, 07:41 PM Post #247
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Apr 27 2012, 06:28 PM
How many crimes are prevented when it is well known that a community has an active neighborhood watch? I would care to wager that even more crimes are prevented when criminals know some folks are armed. We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and I want my neighbors looking out for suspicious people.
Thank you for that completely irrelevant statement.
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brumdog44 Apr 27 2012, 08:18 PM Post #248
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HoosierLars
Apr 27 2012, 06:28 PM
How many crimes are prevented when it is well known that a community has an active neighborhood watch? I would care to wager that even more crimes are prevented when criminals know some folks are armed. We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and I want my neighbors looking out for suspicious people.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0a9_1332787424&comments=1

Zimmerman was not part of a neighborhood watch program.

And if he were, he would have followed recognized neighborhood watch procedure and not followed. And if you run a search, you will find it an extreme rarity that people in a neighborhood watch program carry a gun.
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HoosierLars Apr 27 2012, 08:33 PM Post #249
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dreachon
Apr 27 2012, 07:41 PM
HoosierLars
Apr 27 2012, 06:28 PM
How many crimes are prevented when it is well known that a community has an active neighborhood watch? I would care to wager that even more crimes are prevented when criminals know some folks are armed. We've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and I want my neighbors looking out for suspicious people.
Thank you for that completely irrelevant statement.
My statement was in response to multiple "wanna be cop", etc statements. One needs to look at what better serves the greater good. I think that people taking more responsibility for stopping crime in their neighborhood is a good thing, and it would be a shame if this high profile case actually aids criminals by deterring good citizens from getting involved..

Did you know that about 15,000 Americans are murdered every year, and most of that is black-on-black crime? That's about 50 deaths per day, and yet there is little or no hand-wringing over those alarming statistics. Just trying to put this one incident into perspective...

If Zimmerman broke the law, and I think he probably did, he should be punished using the fullest extent of the law.
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dreachon Apr 27 2012, 08:37 PM Post #250
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Except no one has bashed neighberhood watch programs or people doing the right thing.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM Post #251
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dreachon
Apr 27 2012, 02:11 PM
Let's play a game. Let's take all the facts in the case and combine them with all of the witness reports in the case (which for this purpose, we'll take as TRUE) and see if we can piece together the incident. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Going off of memory.

1) Martin is walking back home talking to his girlfriend on the phone when he notices a car slowly following him
2) Zimmerman notices Martin, thinks he looks suspicious due to a recent string of break-ins by young black men
3) Zimmerman calls 911
4) Martin runs from Zimmerman
5) Zimmerman gets out of his car and chases Martin on foot against the dispatchers order
6) WITNESS - Martin's girlfriend - Says suddenly the man was back and heard him ask Martin what he was doing here. Hears a scuffle and is then cut off as the phone was dropped.
7) WITNESS - Male neighbor - sees Martin beating up Zimerman and Zimmerman asking him for help. Goes upstairs to call 911. Martin is already dead when he looks out the window from upstairs.
8) WITNESS - Female neighbor - Here's someone screaming for help, thinks it's Martin but isn't sure. By the time she makes it to the window, Martin is dead in the grass and Zimmerman is standing over him straddling his body.

So there it is. The entire incident. It seems the only thing that's really in dispute is that Zimmerman says Martin double backed and started attacking him. I guess that's what the entire case hinges on then.
So a 911 dispatcher gives people orders? I thought this was based on facts?

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
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Mr Gray Apr 28 2012, 08:00 AM Post #252
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Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM
dreachon
Apr 27 2012, 02:11 PM
Let's play a game. Let's take all the facts in the case and combine them with all of the witness reports in the case (which for this purpose, we'll take as TRUE) and see if we can piece together the incident. Correct me if I'm wrong anywhere. Going off of memory.

1) Martin is walking back home talking to his girlfriend on the phone when he notices a car slowly following him
2) Zimmerman notices Martin, thinks he looks suspicious due to a recent string of break-ins by young black men
3) Zimmerman calls 911
4) Martin runs from Zimmerman
5) Zimmerman gets out of his car and chases Martin on foot against the dispatchers order
6) WITNESS - Martin's girlfriend - Says suddenly the man was back and heard him ask Martin what he was doing here. Hears a scuffle and is then cut off as the phone was dropped.
7) WITNESS - Male neighbor - sees Martin beating up Zimerman and Zimmerman asking him for help. Goes upstairs to call 911. Martin is already dead when he looks out the window from upstairs.
8) WITNESS - Female neighbor - Here's someone screaming for help, thinks it's Martin but isn't sure. By the time she makes it to the window, Martin is dead in the grass and Zimmerman is standing over him straddling his body.

So there it is. The entire incident. It seems the only thing that's really in dispute is that Zimmerman says Martin double backed and started attacking him. I guess that's what the entire case hinges on then.
So a 911 dispatcher gives people orders? I thought this was based on facts?

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Agreed. I have no problem with dreach having an opinion on it and stating it, but I don't know why he would misstate the facts like that
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Apr 28 2012, 08:06 AM Post #253
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So just change the word 'order' to 'advice'. Hardly seems enough to discredit everything he said.
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dreachon Apr 28 2012, 08:39 AM Post #254
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brumdog44
Apr 28 2012, 08:06 AM
So just change the word 'order' to 'advice'. Hardly seems enough to discredit everything he said.
This. Seriously guys. My post was based on the complaints that we weren't taking all the witness's statements into account. Colt said I ignored the male neighbor and I said he ignored the girlfriend on the phone. And Bliver said we were ignoring the ladies. So I thought, "hey, let's just put the whole thing together and include every witness statement." Hell, I even said "correct me if I'm wrong on anything. Going off of memory."

The fact is, none of the witness statements contradict each other. I'm not convicting anyone with that post. I'm not solving the case. But I do think putting together everything gave us some value. We've argued a lot of different aspects of this case. It really seems to me that the entire case is dependent on Zimmerman's claim that Martin backtracked and then attacked him. Disagree? Why?

If what you two got out of that post was that I said "order" instead of "advise" and somehow that meant I was purposely misstating facts and Zimmerman should be convicted, then you are reading way too into that post.
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TheBliver Apr 28 2012, 08:42 AM Post #255
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brumdog44
Apr 28 2012, 08:06 AM
So just change the word 'order' to 'advice'. Hardly seems enough to discredit everything he said.
no shit, don't go on the we don't know all the evidence yet rant again...this is a message board, we can discuss what evidence has been presented so far. If some of it turns up bogus, so be it, happens all the time. Doesn't mean we can't present what we know so far. Picking one word out to piss and moan about is petty.
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
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"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
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