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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,554 Views)
dreachon Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM Post #256
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IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM Post #257
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dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
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TheBliver Apr 28 2012, 09:20 AM Post #258
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IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
what's the point of this post? Zimmerman has stated IN COURT that he had his head slammed into the concrete, yet every single witness has stated the confrontation happened in the grass in between a couple houses. Now, maybe it started in the street and escalated in the grass, who knows, but why can't we discuss it here? My point, it goes to zimmerman's credibility. If his head was slammed into the concrete repeatedly wouldn't there have been a blood stain or two on the concrete, where's that picture? It was raining so maybe it washed away quickly...or maybe his head wasn't slammed into the concrete afterall.

OH wait, because it hasn't come out on the internet we can't speculate here...IT'S A MESSAGE BOARD

Because no one seems to have seen who attacked who first, I'm having a hard time seeing zimmerman getting convicted of second degree murder, but if it comes out that zimmerman did...then?

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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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dreachon Apr 28 2012, 10:04 AM Post #259
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IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
I only posted the major facts as we know them combined with the witness reports as we know them. If you take all those things at face value then the only thing currently being disputed is whether Martin double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Agreed? Did I miss something? I think it's a pretty good synopsis for where the case currently stands. As more facts come out we can add or subtract to it.

P.S. - I love in your "paraphrasing" you make it seem like Zimmerman did not run after Martin. Incredibly unbiased of you. ^o)
Edited by dreachon, Apr 28 2012, 10:06 AM.
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yawnzzz Apr 29 2012, 01:32 AM Post #260
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Apr 27 2012, 02:11 PM
8) WITNESS - Female neighbor - Here's someone screaming for help, thinks it's Martin but isn't sure.
For what its worth, I wouldn't put any credence in this statement. Everyone sounds like a little girl when they're screaming for their life.
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dreachon Apr 29 2012, 07:51 AM Post #261
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Apr 29 2012, 01:32 AM
dreachon
Apr 27 2012, 02:11 PM
8) WITNESS - Female neighbor - Here's someone screaming for help, thinks it's Martin but isn't sure.
For what its worth, I wouldn't put any credence in this statement. Everyone sounds like a little girl when they're screaming for their life.
True enough. Certainly wouldn't hold up on court. I think it was their phone call where you can hear the scream in the background.
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 29 2012, 09:51 AM Post #262
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dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 10:04 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
I only posted the major facts as we know them combined with the witness reports as we know them. If you take all those things at face value then the only thing currently being disputed is whether Martin double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Agreed? Did I miss something? I think it's a pretty good synopsis for where the case currently stands. As more facts come out we can add or subtract to it.

P.S. - I love in your "paraphrasing" you make it seem like Zimmerman did not run after Martin. Incredibly unbiased of you. ^o)
....and I like how you make it sound like he chased him down and simply shot and killed him. If it were that cut and dry then we wouldnt be having this conversation.
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dreachon Apr 29 2012, 11:25 AM Post #263
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Apr 29 2012, 09:51 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 10:04 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
I only posted the major facts as we know them combined with the witness reports as we know them. If you take all those things at face value then the only thing currently being disputed is whether Martin double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Agreed? Did I miss something? I think it's a pretty good synopsis for where the case currently stands. As more facts come out we can add or subtract to it.

P.S. - I love in your "paraphrasing" you make it seem like Zimmerman did not run after Martin. Incredibly unbiased of you. ^o)
....and I like how you make it sound like he chased him down and simply shot and killed him. If it were that cut and dry then we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Oh please. At no point have I ever said that or given that impression. I have stated multiple times that if Martin was beating up Zimmerman (and it appears he was) than the stand your ground law should apply to Martin before it applies to Zimmerman. And in no way did I even come close making your ridiculous claim in my post about facts and witnesses.

I love how you can't address the actual post itself. Instead you choose to nitpick "order" and "advise" and then claim I'm convicting Zimmerman like he's some sort of ruthless killer. All the while, you remain the "unbiased" party here. What a freaking joke.
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Mr Gray Apr 29 2012, 10:06 PM Post #264
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For the record...it is possible for grass and concrete to exist right next to one another....such as a sidewalk in a neighborhood. I'm pretty sure, based on the photo of Zimmerman's head, that he was being slammed into something harder than grass.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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TheBliver Apr 29 2012, 10:45 PM Post #265
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Apr 29 2012, 10:06 PM
For the record...it is possible for grass and concrete to exist right next to one another....such as a sidewalk in a neighborhood. I'm pretty sure, based on the photo of Zimmerman's head, that he was being slammed into something harder than grass.
thanks captain obvious. Zimmerman's back was covered in grass, it's in the police report. The boy walking his dog was on the sidewalk when he saw the two men fighting. Now, I'm just going on what I've read from the eye witness accounts, but in none of them have I read this encounter happened on the sidewalk. Not saying it didn't, but no one has said otherwise, except for zimmerman. I'm not saying it's the crux of the case either, I just find it odd. Was he telling the truth about this? I just looked up the young boys statement. He said the confrontation happened in a patch of grass. Maybe there was a concrete pad exactly where his head was but the rest of his body was in grass...just doesn't sit well with me. If you're innocent, then lying about details isn't the thing to do.

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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Mr Gray Apr 30 2012, 06:39 AM Post #266
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Apr 29 2012, 10:45 PM
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Apr 29 2012, 10:06 PM
For the record...it is possible for grass and concrete to exist right next to one another....such as a sidewalk in a neighborhood. I'm pretty sure, based on the photo of Zimmerman's head, that he was being slammed into something harder than grass.
thanks captain obvious. Zimmerman's back was covered in grass, it's in the police report. The boy walking his dog was on the sidewalk when he saw the two men fighting. Now, I'm just going on what I've read from the eye witness accounts, but in none of them have I read this encounter happened on the sidewalk. Not saying it didn't, but no one has said otherwise, except for zimmerman. I'm not saying it's the crux of the case either, I just find it odd. Was he telling the truth about this? I just looked up the young boys statement. He said the confrontation happened in a patch of grass. Maybe there was a concrete pad exactly where his head was but the rest of his body was in grass...just doesn't sit well with me. If you're innocent, then lying about details isn't the thing to do.

"a patch of grass" in a neighborhood is likely to be smaller than Zimmerman and Martin, meaning that some part of their body could easily have been on concrete.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Apr 30 2012, 07:38 AM Post #267
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Could be something as simple as rocks in a grassy area that felt like concrete. Whatever the case, I don't think you cut the back of your head having it rubbed into the grass.
Edited by dreachon, Apr 30 2012, 07:38 AM.
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TheBliver Apr 30 2012, 08:09 AM Post #268
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Apr 30 2012, 07:38 AM
Could be something as simple as rocks in a grassy area that felt like concrete. Whatever the case, I don't think you cut the back of your head having it rubbed into the grass.
I agree with both of you, so where's the concrete that zimmerman said his head was slammed into, because I don't see grass causing this injury either? It's not like neighborhoods have 4x4 patches of grass in them. Just another inconsistency I want to know more about. Also, from the girlfriends statement, it seems trayvon was trying to run from zimmerman. She stated she heard trayvon say, "why are you FOLLOWING me" Zimmerman said, "what are you doing here" Then a scuffle broke out and his ear piece fell out and the call was dropped. There are accounts in this case that seem to have zimmerman as the aggressor.

Now, I'm not disputing trayvon and zimmerman were in a confrontation and I'm not a hater of guns, I own more than most people on the board I bet, but I think the prosecution is trying this case on what happened before the scuffle, not in the last 30 seconds of trayvon's life.
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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IUCOLTFAN Apr 30 2012, 01:23 PM Post #269
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dreachon
Apr 29 2012, 11:25 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 29 2012, 09:51 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 10:04 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 09:08 AM
dreachon
Apr 28 2012, 08:48 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Apr 28 2012, 07:45 AM

"I'm gonna follow him"

"you don't need to do that"


Sounds like an order to me...

Dreach, listen to the full 911 call. When Zimmerman is talking about where to meet the patrol car with the dispatcher he is not "chasing" anyone. Your stated "facts" do nothing to solve the case. Not sure what you are claiming here? Are you saying that what you've stated is enoungh to convict Zimmerman? Without a trial/testimony, how will we ever know what happened? Give the guy his fair trial. Hell, you are still ready to convict without all the evidence...why?
Your quotes are wrong.

Dispatcher - "Are you following him"
Zimmerman - "Yeah"
Dispatcher - "Ok, we don't need you to do that."
Zimmerman - "Ok"

Why would you purposely misstate the facts like that, Colt? :ermm:
My point wasnt to give there direct quotes....paraphrasing.

Hell, a few posts ago someone even claimed he didn't get his head hit on the concrete.

I thought we had all already agreed that none of us knew all the facts? Why start over again?
I only posted the major facts as we know them combined with the witness reports as we know them. If you take all those things at face value then the only thing currently being disputed is whether Martin double backed and attacked Zimmerman. Agreed? Did I miss something? I think it's a pretty good synopsis for where the case currently stands. As more facts come out we can add or subtract to it.

P.S. - I love in your "paraphrasing" you make it seem like Zimmerman did not run after Martin. Incredibly unbiased of you. ^o)
....and I like how you make it sound like he chased him down and simply shot and killed him. If it were that cut and dry then we wouldnt be having this conversation.
Oh please. At no point have I ever said that or given that impression. I have stated multiple times that if Martin was beating up Zimmerman (and it appears he was) than the stand your ground law should apply to Martin before it applies to Zimmerman. And in no way did I even come close making your ridiculous claim in my post about facts and witnesses.

I love how you can't address the actual post itself. Instead you choose to nitpick "order" and "advise" and then claim I'm convicting Zimmerman like he's some sort of ruthless killer. All the while, you remain the "unbiased" party here. What a freaking joke.
Are you claiming that your initial reaction was not that Zimmerman was guilty of something? I haven't claimed anyone is guilty or innocent in this case. I've played devils advocate and said I could see it go either way.

I do have a question for you tho. Is it possible that Zim "chased" Martin and lost him and headed back to his vehicle (hence the 911 conversation about meeting the patrol car) and then Martin doubled back and confronted Zim while Martin was still on the phone with his girlfriend?
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dreachon Apr 30 2012, 01:51 PM Post #270
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Apr 30 2012, 01:23 PM
Are you claiming that your initial reaction was not that Zimmerman was guilty of something? I haven't claimed anyone is guilty or innocent in this case. I've played devils advocate and said I could see it go either way.

I do have a question for you tho. Is it possible that Zim "chased" Martin and lost him and headed back to his vehicle (hence the 911 conversation about meeting the patrol car) and then Martin doubled back and confronted Zim while Martin was still on the phone with his girlfriend?
My initial reaction was that Zimmerman needed to be arrested and not walking around scot-free. And again, you saying the case could go either way and you believing whether Zimmerman is guilty or not are two entirely different things. Everyone says the case could go either way. Not everyone claims to be unbiased while solely arguing for one person in the case.

Yes, it's possible Martin double backed to Zimmerman while on the phone with his girlfriend. Does it make any sense? No. But it's possible.

I LOVE that you still put "chase" in quotation marks as if it's not clear whether Zimmerman got out of the car and went after Martin.
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