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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,547 Views)
TheBliver May 18 2012, 06:40 AM Post #361
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what does soapy people mean anyway? And what insane conclusions did "they" jump to?
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
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MsJazen May 18 2012, 08:31 AM Post #362
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Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media.

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
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HoosierLars May 18 2012, 09:44 AM Post #363
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I heard on the radio this morning that the person calling for help in the 911 call was clearly GZ.
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MsJazen May 18 2012, 10:10 AM Post #364
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May 18 2012, 09:44 AM
I heard on the radio this morning that the person calling for help in the 911 call was clearly GZ.
Some people claim that it is Trayvon's voice calling for help (including his own family). I heard on JVM last night that the FBI have not been able to determine whose voice that is.
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dreachon May 18 2012, 10:16 AM Post #365
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May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
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HoosierLars May 18 2012, 10:34 AM Post #366
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May 18 2012, 09:44 AM
I heard on the radio this morning that the person calling for help in the 911 call was clearly GZ.
Some people claim that it is Trayvon's voice calling for help (including his own family). I heard on JVM last night that the FBI have not been able to determine whose voice that is.
The ABC news reporter this morning claimed that tm's family publicly said it was their son, but later his dad admitted it wasn't.
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Mr Gray May 18 2012, 12:04 PM Post #367
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May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media.

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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MsJazen May 18 2012, 12:16 PM Post #368
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Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
MsJazen
May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media.

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
My point was, that in the beginning, before the 911 call was released, the media reported that the 2 parents were demanding justice for their son. That the police at least investigate his death and not just take Zimmerman's word for what happened. The race thing and the pictures of both Zimmerman and Trayvon were reported afterwards, as the case progressed and more information was released.

Following somebody may not be a sufficient threat to attack someone, if that is what happened. We still don't know that it is.

I believe that somebody walking down the street on their way home is not a threat that would justify following them with a gun and confronting them either. That is something we do know happened.
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eelbor May 18 2012, 12:32 PM Post #369
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Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
MsJazen
May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media.

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
Nor is murdering someone for saying 'none of your fucking business', if that is what happened.

See what I did there? Just like you I interjected bias into the statement I made without having to claim it.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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HoosierLars May 18 2012, 12:41 PM Post #370
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eelbor
May 18 2012, 12:32 PM
Nor is murdering someone for saying 'none of your fucking business', if that is what happened.

See what I did there? Just like you I interjected bias into the statement I made without having to claim it.
The injury report, gz's multiple injuries and tm's damaged knuckles, paint a pretty clear picture of whose ass was getting kicked. My guess, based on the evidence, is that tm is the one who escalated the conflict to a fight. Would tm's death have been avoided if gz had listened to the 911 operator and stayed in his car? Yes. Would tm still be alive if he hadn't decided to kick gz's ass? Probably yes.
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dreachon May 18 2012, 01:13 PM Post #371
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May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
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HoosierLars May 18 2012, 01:24 PM Post #372
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dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
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dreachon May 18 2012, 01:39 PM Post #373
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HoosierLars
May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
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HoosierLars May 18 2012, 01:46 PM Post #374
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dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:39 PM
HoosierLars
May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
I think the MSM clearly knew what they were doing when using the term "White-hispanic", and now you're referring to gz as a "white man". :P

I'm glad this case is getting enough attention to force a thorough investigation. I believe gz may be guilty of manslaughter, but think the prosecution is over-stating their case going for 2nd degree murder.
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eelbor May 18 2012, 02:08 PM Post #375
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May 18 2012, 12:41 PM
eelbor
May 18 2012, 12:32 PM
Nor is murdering someone for saying 'none of your fucking business', if that is what happened.

See what I did there? Just like you I interjected bias into the statement I made without having to claim it.
The injury report, gz's multiple injuries and tm's damaged knuckles, paint a pretty clear picture of whose ass was getting kicked. My guess, based on the evidence, is that tm is the one who escalated the conflict to a fight. Would tm's death have been avoided if gz had listened to the 911 operator and stayed in his car? Yes. Would tm still be alive if he hadn't decided to kick gz's ass? Probably yes.
Not arguing that. I am the one waiting on the court case remember? Aaron is trying to claim he is taking an unbiased wait and see attitude, and then posts statements that damn near drip with charged language.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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