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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,546 Views)
brumdog44 May 18 2012, 11:25 PM Post #376
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May 18 2012, 01:46 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:39 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
I think the MSM clearly knew what they were doing when using the term "White-hispanic", and now you're referring to gz as a "white man". :P

I'm glad this case is getting enough attention to force a thorough investigation. I believe gz may be guilty of manslaughter, but think the prosecution is over-stating their case going for 2nd degree murder.
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
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IUCOLTFAN May 19 2012, 07:49 AM Post #377
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Al and Jesse didn't get involved for no reason. Hell, Al even hosted a rally. We had members of congress stating that he was 'hunted down like a dog'. There weren't very many media outlets questioning those comments. They covered them but didn't question them.
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HoosierLars May 19 2012, 09:55 AM Post #378
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brumdog44
May 18 2012, 11:25 PM
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Brum, when you see gz, do you think he looks like a white guy or a Mexican?
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 12:35 PM Post #379
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May 18 2012, 11:25 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:46 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:39 PM
HoosierLars
May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
I think the MSM clearly knew what they were doing when using the term "White-hispanic", and now you're referring to gz as a "white man". :P

I'm glad this case is getting enough attention to force a thorough investigation. I believe gz may be guilty of manslaughter, but think the prosecution is over-stating their case going for 2nd degree murder.
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Abc, CBS, NBC, CNN, msnbc, USA today, nytimes, Chicago tribune, and la times to name a few.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 12:39 PM Post #380
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May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
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May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 May 19 2012, 12:41 PM Post #381
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May 19 2012, 12:35 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:39 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
I think the MSM clearly knew what they were doing when using the term "White-hispanic", and now you're referring to gz as a "white man". :P

I'm glad this case is getting enough attention to force a thorough investigation. I believe gz may be guilty of manslaughter, but think the prosecution is over-stating their case going for 2nd degree murder.
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Abc, CBS, NBC, CNN, msnbc, USA today, nytimes, Chicago tribune, and la times to name a few.
I can't account for every story that each of them ran -- there have been hundreds of them -- but I would be shocked if more than 20% of them used the term.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 12:49 PM Post #382
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May 18 2012, 12:16 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
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May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
My point was, that in the beginning, before the 911 call was released, the media reported that the 2 parents were demanding justice for their son. That the police at least investigate his death and not just take Zimmerman's word for what happened. The race thing and the pictures of both Zimmerman and Trayvon were reported afterwards, as the case progressed and more information was released.

Following somebody may not be a sufficient threat to attack someone, if that is what happened. We still don't know that it is.

I believe that somebody walking down the street on their way home is not a threat that would justify following them with a gun and confronting them either. That is something we do know happened.
You don't need "justification" to follow someone because it isn't a crime. Adding "with a gun" uses rhetoric to create emotion, but carrying a gun in this case doesn't change anything because gz was a legal carrier.

Don't get me wrong. When I think of it from a parents perspective i know I would be furious if my daughter was followed for no apparent reason. I would also authorize my daughter to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened. If gz's story that he only left the truck to get a house number and then tm doubled back and attacked him is true, then that changes things significantly. It really boils down to those details for to determine guilt or innocence.
Edited by Mr Gray, May 19 2012, 01:00 PM.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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TheBliver May 19 2012, 12:52 PM Post #383
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May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
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May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 12:53 PM Post #384
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brumdog44
May 19 2012, 12:41 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:35 PM
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May 18 2012, 11:25 PM
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May 18 2012, 01:46 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:39 PM
HoosierLars
May 18 2012, 01:24 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 01:13 PM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder.
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I think the media and everyone (at least initially) jumped to the conclusion of race based inequality of the justice system. It was the fact that a white man killed a black kid and wasn't arrested, not that the white man killed the kid because he was black.
Ummmm.... A "white-hispanic" man.
The point of bringing up race was to say a white man wasn't be charged for killing an unarmed black teenager. Not that a white man killed a black teenager because he is racist. The media and public firestorm was due to the perceived racial prejudice in the handling of the case, not within the murder itself.
I think the MSM clearly knew what they were doing when using the term "White-hispanic", and now you're referring to gz as a "white man". :P

I'm glad this case is getting enough attention to force a thorough investigation. I believe gz may be guilty of manslaughter, but think the prosecution is over-stating their case going for 2nd degree murder.
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Abc, CBS, NBC, CNN, msnbc, USA today, nytimes, Chicago tribune, and la times to name a few.
I can't account for every story that each of them ran -- there have been hundreds of them -- but I would be shocked if more than 20% of them used the term.
Then prepare to be shocked. Beck played and read stories over the air from each of those I listed where they used that term in addition to other insightful rhetoric.

Brim, why are you rushing to defend the media? It doesn't change your take at all, which I think is a fair one, but seems crazy given the media's obvious slant and record of exploitation.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 01:03 PM Post #385
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May 19 2012, 12:52 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
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May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 May 19 2012, 01:36 PM Post #386
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Aaron, you obviously didn't read what I wrote. I said I doubted that 20% of the stories from these outlets used the term white Hispanic. That is not a mutually exclusive statement from saying those outlets didn't have stories that used the term. And just because outlets used the term to incite for ratings purposes doesn't make Zimmerman unbiased.
I also think it's pretty telling who you are using for news source.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 02:49 PM Post #387
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May 19 2012, 01:36 PM
Aaron, you obviously didn't read what I wrote. I said I doubted that 20% of the stories from these outlets used the term white Hispanic. That is not a mutually exclusive statement from saying those outlets didn't have stories that used the term. And just because outlets used the term to incite for ratings purposes doesn't make Zimmerman unbiased.
I also think it's pretty telling who you are using for news source.
I listen to Beck almost everyday. I have never hid that. He only covers a few topics daily though. I get my News from all over the place mostly via the Drudge Report. I referenced the media to show how people were jumping to conclusions all over the place I can also post several videos and audio from government officials stating outrageous claims against Zimmerman. Of course those claims and those people don't make Zimmerman anymore or less guilty nor did I claim that they did. I was asked what conclusions people were jumping to and who those people were.

That being said however I have seen no evidence to indicate that Zimmerman has any major prejudice towards the black race. Certainly not enough to speculate that he hunted down a black teenager like a dog to kill him which has been stated by both the media and government officials. This is one of many examples of dangerously jumping to conclusions and adding racial tensions to a story that was clearly already tragic enough.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars May 19 2012, 03:07 PM Post #388
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How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Brum, when you see gz, do you think he looks like a white guy or a Mexican?
bump
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dreachon May 19 2012, 03:37 PM Post #389
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How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Brum, when you see gz, do you think he looks like a white guy or a Mexican?
bump
Having lived in South Florida, I can tell you with absolute certainty that many white people look like Zimmerman. Saying he looks more hispanic than white might mean something in North Dakota, but not in Florida. When I lived there I was mistaken for hispanic several times.
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MsJazen May 19 2012, 04:42 PM Post #390
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May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
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May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
My point was, that in the beginning, before the 911 call was released, the media reported that the 2 parents were demanding justice for their son. That the police at least investigate his death and not just take Zimmerman's word for what happened. The race thing and the pictures of both Zimmerman and Trayvon were reported afterwards, as the case progressed and more information was released.

Following somebody may not be a sufficient threat to attack someone, if that is what happened. We still don't know that it is.

I believe that somebody walking down the street on their way home is not a threat that would justify following them with a gun and confronting them either. That is something we do know happened.
You don't need "justification" to follow someone because it isn't a crime. Adding "with a gun" uses rhetoric to create emotion, but carrying a gun in this case doesn't change anything because gz was a legal carrier.

Don't get me wrong. When I think of it from a parents perspective i know I would be furious if my daughter was followed for no apparent reason. I would also authorize my daughter to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened. If gz's story that he only left the truck to get a house number and then tm doubled back and attacked him is true, then that changes things significantly. It really boils down to those details for to determine guilt or innocence.
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?

Actually, an innocent young boy is dead. That is what creates emotion in this case. Not anyone's words on a internet discussion forum.

In my opinion.
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