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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,545 Views)
TheBliver May 19 2012, 05:05 PM Post #391
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May 19 2012, 01:03 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:52 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
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May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
I"m sorry, what makes you think TM was high? did they find evidence of that? No they didn't. having weed in his system was a forgone conclusion because it was the reason he was suspended from school.

Yea, it will impair you judgement, like eating 10 tacos at taco bell, but not going crazy and attacking people.

Have you ever smoked marijuana before aaron?
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
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"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
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HoosierLars May 19 2012, 05:07 PM Post #392
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A pot smoking, 6'-2" 17 year old boy, dressed in standard gangster gear, who felt compelled to beat the crap out of some short policeman wannabe Hispanic guy.
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TheBliver May 19 2012, 05:13 PM Post #393
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A pot smoking, 6'-2" 17 year old boy, dressed in standard gangster gear, who felt compelled to beat the crap out of some short policeman wannabe Hispanic guy.
way to wrap up the two sides of the argument lars, not to make fun of this tragedy, but that was kinda funny
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
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"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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brumdog44 May 19 2012, 05:48 PM Post #394
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How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Brum, when you see gz, do you think he looks like a white guy or a Mexican?
bump
Hispanic.
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mongo May 19 2012, 07:03 PM Post #395
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May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
Impair? Yes. But it doesn't make you aggressive, and it can be in your system without you actually feeling th effects. Habitual smokers have thc in their system for a couple weeks.
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mongo May 19 2012, 07:04 PM Post #396
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May 19 2012, 05:48 PM
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May 19 2012, 09:55 AM
brumdog44
May 18 2012, 11:25 PM
How many outlets reported him as a white Hispanic? It seems to me that a couple people on here claiming the media focused on race only want to bring up ones that did.
Brum, when you see gz, do you think he looks like a white guy or a Mexican?
bump
Hispanic.
Thank you. I almost commented on that too.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 08:03 PM Post #397
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May 19 2012, 12:52 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
Impair? Yes. But it doesn't make you aggressive, and it can be in your system without you actually feeling th effects. Habitual smokers have thc in their system for a couple weeks.
The weed most likely had no effect on Martins actions but the defense will cite examPle after example of where weed caused aggression or more importantly paranoia. It will also be an attack on tm's credibility.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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mongo May 19 2012, 08:10 PM Post #398
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May 19 2012, 12:52 PM
Mr Gray
May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
Impair? Yes. But it doesn't make you aggressive, and it can be in your system without you actually feeling th effects. Habitual smokers have thc in their system for a couple weeks.
The weed most likely had no effect on Martins actions but the defense will cite examPle after example of where weed caused aggression or more importantly paranoia. It will also be an attack on tm's credibility.
Can't argue with that I'm sure they'll use it. Yes it can make you paranoid, but I imagine somebody following you at night would also make you paranoid...
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Bobobinc May 19 2012, 08:22 PM Post #399
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May 19 2012, 07:03 PM
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May 19 2012, 01:03 PM
TheBliver
May 19 2012, 12:52 PM
Mr Gray
May 19 2012, 12:39 PM
dreachon
May 18 2012, 10:16 AM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:10 PM
Martin had marijuana in his system that night. The defense will eat that alive. Both Martin's overall character will be in question as well as the probability of impaired judgement that evening.
How long does Marijuana stay in your system? He was suspended from school for smoking weed so if it was still in his system it doesn't necessarily mean he was high that night. I would think if he had recently been smoking the autopsy would have reported marijuana residue on his hands or face.
I think it stays in your system for a few weeks so it could have been smoked earlier. Either way, the defense will have a field day with it because it is nearly impossible to say for sure when it was actually smoked.
I don't think so...the reefer madness days are over aaron, no one thinks people who smoke weed are going to go crazy and beat people up. Plus, we already know that TM was suspended from school for weed, so of course he should have it in his system. I'm certain that jury will have at least a couple people on it who have smoked weed before and will laugh if someone even brings it up.
Come on bliver. To say that being high doesn't impair your judgement is asinine.
Impair? Yes. But it doesn't make you aggressive, and it can be in your system without you actually feeling th effects. Habitual smokers have thc in their system for a couple weeks.
The weed most likely had no effect on Martins actions but the defense will cite examPle after example of where weed caused aggression or more importantly paranoia. It will also be an attack on tm's credibility.
Can't argue with that I'm sure they'll use it. Yes it can make you paranoid, but I imagine somebody following you at night would also make you paranoid...
This thread is making me paranoid.

Think I'll have another.
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TheBliver May 19 2012, 09:01 PM Post #400
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yea, it's usually a good idea blaming an innocent teenager walking home from a gas station with candy and tea for his own death because he smoked weed before...nice call

teenagers smoking pot, wow, I haven't met one of those in like an hour
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 09:03 PM Post #401
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May 19 2012, 04:42 PM
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May 19 2012, 12:49 PM
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May 18 2012, 12:16 PM
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May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
MsJazen
May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
Mr Gray
May 18 2012, 06:35 AM
brumdog44
May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
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May 17 2012, 09:06 PM
Mr Gray
May 17 2012, 12:09 PM
I have no Problem with blivers current stance. It makes perfect sense to look at it as a matter of who started the physical confrontation, how, and why to determine fault. My problem has always been with the crazy conclusion jumping we saw from half the posters on here, which was reflective of the overall public and certainly the insane media

I don't like how gz handled the situation and he obviously has some paranoid vigellante tendencies, but so many people so quickly made the leap to racist black-hunting killer that it just turns my stomach. Its as sad as anything in the world that Martin had to lose his life, but to think that Gz wanted it that way and is in anyway happy that it happened is a co cousin based on emotion and hype, not logic and evidence
If GZ hadn't jumped to conclusions, the whole matter is moot.
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
My point was, that in the beginning, before the 911 call was released, the media reported that the 2 parents were demanding justice for their son. That the police at least investigate his death and not just take Zimmerman's word for what happened. The race thing and the pictures of both Zimmerman and Trayvon were reported afterwards, as the case progressed and more information was released.

Following somebody may not be a sufficient threat to attack someone, if that is what happened. We still don't know that it is.

I believe that somebody walking down the street on their way home is not a threat that would justify following them with a gun and confronting them either. That is something we do know happened.
You don't need "justification" to follow someone because it isn't a crime. Adding "with a gun" uses rhetoric to create emotion, but carrying a gun in this case doesn't change anything because gz was a legal carrier.

Don't get me wrong. When I think of it from a parents perspective i know I would be furious if my daughter was followed for no apparent reason. I would also authorize my daughter to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened. If gz's story that he only left the truck to get a house number and then tm doubled back and attacked him is true, then that changes things significantly. It really boils down to those details for to determine guilt or innocence.
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.
Good question. Actually when you leave out certain details, only cite a statement from one side of the fence (martins girlfriend), and blatently mis-state certain details to make one party look worse......yep, that's rhetoric!
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray May 19 2012, 09:06 PM Post #402
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May 19 2012, 09:01 PM
yea, it's usually a good idea blaming an innocent teenager walking home from a gas station with candy and tea for his own death because he smoked weed before...nice call

teenagers smoking pot, wow, I haven't met one of those in like an hour
Your bias makes it a waste of time to discuss this with you. Everyone on here knows exactly how the defense will use the weed as a character issue. It will be the counter to the rosy perfect innocent little kid picture that the prosecution will paint.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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MsJazen May 19 2012, 09:24 PM Post #403
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Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George said it was self defense. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.

There. Fixed it for you.
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MsJazen May 19 2012, 09:25 PM Post #404
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May 18 2012, 12:04 PM
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May 18 2012, 08:31 AM
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May 17 2012, 11:09 PM
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May 17 2012, 10:12 PM
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May 17 2012, 09:06 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Does that make it right?
No, but while you can pin the incitement on the media, you can't pin the initial action to them.
I have no idea where you are going with this, but of course the media had to have a story to start with. It doesn't change the fact that so many people jumped to insane conclusions.

Do you feel that it was wrong for gz to profile Martin based on his skin color and draw conclusions as to his actions?
As far as I can remember, the media "jumped" on this case because a young boy was dead and the shooter was let loose without much investigation other than taking Zimmerman's word for the self defense explanation. I believe it developed from there, after the 911-call was released (among other things). In my opinion, at the start of this case most people found it disturbing that an unarmed teenager walking home from getting soda and candy ended up dead and the shooter ended up at home, in his own bed.

Speaking about self defense. Why are so few people willing to defend Trayvon's right to defend himself when being confronted by a stranger?
The media and many others jumped to conclusions of race based murder. They further inflamed the situation by gz a "white" Hispanic and only showing old photos of both, making Martin look like a tiny little kid and gz look like a big strOng young man.

I do not deny Martins right to defend himself and never have. Following somebody and asking them what they are doing isn't sufficient threat to justify pummeling someone in my opinion, if that is what happened.
My point was, that in the beginning, before the 911 call was released, the media reported that the 2 parents were demanding justice for their son. That the police at least investigate his death and not just take Zimmerman's word for what happened. The race thing and the pictures of both Zimmerman and Trayvon were reported afterwards, as the case progressed and more information was released.

Following somebody may not be a sufficient threat to attack someone, if that is what happened. We still don't know that it is.

I believe that somebody walking down the street on their way home is not a threat that would justify following them with a gun and confronting them either. That is something we do know happened.
You don't need "justification" to follow someone because it isn't a crime. Adding "with a gun" uses rhetoric to create emotion, but carrying a gun in this case doesn't change anything because gz was a legal carrier.

Don't get me wrong. When I think of it from a parents perspective i know I would be furious if my daughter was followed for no apparent reason. I would also authorize my daughter to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened. If gz's story that he only left the truck to get a house number and then tm doubled back and attacked him is true, then that changes things significantly. It really boils down to those details for to determine guilt or innocence.
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.
Good question. Actually when you leave out certain details, only cite a statement from one side of the fence (martins girlfriend), and blatently mis-state certain details to make one party look worse......yep, that's rhetoric!
Actually, I just now noticed it...

You deleted part of my post in the quote. Was that meant as an example on "leaving out details"?
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IUCOLTFAN May 19 2012, 09:27 PM Post #405
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May 19 2012, 09:24 PM
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George said it was self defense. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.

There. Fixed it for you.
....and you left out the part where Zimmerman got the shit kicked out of him. The boy was still alive when that happened. The girlfriend is hearsay, there are eyewitnesses that saw the "fight".

You don't feel like those are important parts of the case?
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