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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,542 Views)
MsJazen May 20 2012, 06:27 PM Post #436
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What law? Do you have a link to where I can see what it says?
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Mr Gray May 20 2012, 07:36 PM Post #437
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MsJazen
May 20 2012, 03:59 PM
Mr Gray
May 20 2012, 12:58 PM
MsJazen
May 19 2012, 11:42 PM
Mr Gray
May 19 2012, 11:05 PM
MsJazen
May 19 2012, 09:24 PM
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George said it was self defense. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.

There. Fixed it for you.
Not fixed. Still missing relevent parts and mis-stating the facts. 911 did not tell him that he shouldn't follow. You include the girlfriends statement but leave out eye witness accounts and zimmermans statement. How about the witness that said Martin was beating gz "mma style". Or the black eyes, cut head, and martins bruised knuckles. Those are also facts, and when you leave them out you are in fact displaying spin or rhetoric.


Sorry, hit the post reply button by mistake.

The eye witnesses, is not there, you are correct. My mistake. At this point, some of those statements are not consistent with what the actual evidence shows. If George had Trayvon on top of him, how come there is no blood from the gun shot wound on the front of his clothes in the pictures the police took that night. Also, George claimed to have his head bashed on the cement side walk, but Trayvon's body was found in the middle of a grassy area. How is that possible?

There is also no evidence of any black eyes that I have seen. People said he had black eyes, yes. But no evidence so far.

If you read my post, both the broken nose and George's claim of self defense is in there. The 911 call can be found on the internet, if you want to listen to it. At least, to my ears, he was told not to follow.

Did you know that George Zimmerman had prescribed medicine that could make a person aggressive? Of course, the police never tested his blood, so we will never know if he had them in his system.

The fact of it all, to me, comes down to this:

If George had

a) not followed Trayvon
b) not had a gun on him
c) not confronted Trayvon
d) not shot the gun

If Trayvon had

a) stayed in and not walked in the rain "looking suspicious"
b) not defended himself

Trayvon would have been alive today.

Who I think is responsible? Feel free to guess.

Oh, and about the girlfriend...cell phone records prove that he was on the phone with her until a minute or two before the 911 calls started coming in.

Msjaz, If tm did in fact double back into the situation, ask gz if he had a problem, and then punch him in the nose and proceed to whoop his ass badly, hitting him and smashing his head on the ground, do you think gz is justified in defending himself?
You can play the IF game all day. It is really obvious that you are wanting so bad for Zimmerman to be justified and are looking for any IFs that in your opinion would make it so. Last night you said that you would authorize your own daughter "to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened" so why not Trayvon? You never did answer that either, just saying that following someone is not illegal.

So. What IF Zimmerman showed/brought out his gun when he confronted Trayvon. Does that give Trayvon the right to defend himself? What IF Trayvon tried to walk away and Zimmerman stopped him by grabbing his arm/clothes? Both of these IFs would be much more consistent with their behaviours leading up to that point (Trayvon being the one trying to get home and Zimmerman not wanting another one of "these assholes" to get away). Have you even bothered to look at those IFs?

As for it being common practice to delete the part of someone's post that you don't want to answer - the sentence you deleted was a direct response to your accusing me of "bringing emotion into this". You didn't answer because you didn't want to. The question I asked was if that was your example of leaving out details (another thing you accused me of), something you didn't want to answer either. I guess my questions are too hard for you?

The whole situation was created by Zimmerman. He is responsible for Trayvon's death. Should Florida law make him justified in shooting an innocent boy like that, then anyone could walk up to a person and provoke them to attack - and then shoot them dead.
Whoa back up the truck Msjaz. Let's start with the "question" that you claim is too hard for me to answer. Here it is

"Actually, an innocent young boy is dead. That is what creates emotion in this case. Not anyone's words on a internet discussion forum."

I think that one is too hard for anyone to answer since apparently it would require an understanding of your proprietary language..... In English, however that isn't even a question.

Next, if you had actually read my posts you would see that I repeatedly said that if gz provoked the confrontation then he is in the wrong and should at least be guilty of manslaughter. Just like my daughter, if tm was threatened then he had a right to defend himself. If he doubled back as gz was walking to his truck and assaulted him, then that is no longer defense. Regarding all of your other "ifs" they amount to whether or not gz provoked the physical confrontation. If so, then it is his fault.

How in the hell is that being biased or me "wanting so badly" for Zimmerman to be justified? I am just considering both sides as any rational human being would do. You are clearly only looking at one side.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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MsJazen May 20 2012, 08:00 PM Post #438
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Mr Gray
May 20 2012, 07:36 PM
MsJazen
May 20 2012, 03:59 PM
Mr Gray
May 20 2012, 12:58 PM
MsJazen
May 19 2012, 11:42 PM
Mr Gray
May 19 2012, 11:05 PM
MsJazen
May 19 2012, 09:24 PM
Trayvon was walking back to his father's house, doing nothing wrong. George followed Trayvon. He had a gun with him. George called 911. 911 told George he shouldn't follow Trayvon. George followed him anyway. George confronted Trayvon (girlfriend's statement). George got a broken nose. Trayvon got shot. Trayvon died. George said it was self defense. George was released by police.

Rhetorics or facts?
In my opinion.

There. Fixed it for you.
Not fixed. Still missing relevent parts and mis-stating the facts. 911 did not tell him that he shouldn't follow. You include the girlfriends statement but leave out eye witness accounts and zimmermans statement. How about the witness that said Martin was beating gz "mma style". Or the black eyes, cut head, and martins bruised knuckles. Those are also facts, and when you leave them out you are in fact displaying spin or rhetoric.


Sorry, hit the post reply button by mistake.

The eye witnesses, is not there, you are correct. My mistake. At this point, some of those statements are not consistent with what the actual evidence shows. If George had Trayvon on top of him, how come there is no blood from the gun shot wound on the front of his clothes in the pictures the police took that night. Also, George claimed to have his head bashed on the cement side walk, but Trayvon's body was found in the middle of a grassy area. How is that possible?

There is also no evidence of any black eyes that I have seen. People said he had black eyes, yes. But no evidence so far.

If you read my post, both the broken nose and George's claim of self defense is in there. The 911 call can be found on the internet, if you want to listen to it. At least, to my ears, he was told not to follow.

Did you know that George Zimmerman had prescribed medicine that could make a person aggressive? Of course, the police never tested his blood, so we will never know if he had them in his system.

The fact of it all, to me, comes down to this:

If George had

a) not followed Trayvon
b) not had a gun on him
c) not confronted Trayvon
d) not shot the gun

If Trayvon had

a) stayed in and not walked in the rain "looking suspicious"
b) not defended himself

Trayvon would have been alive today.

Who I think is responsible? Feel free to guess.

Oh, and about the girlfriend...cell phone records prove that he was on the phone with her until a minute or two before the 911 calls started coming in.

Msjaz, If tm did in fact double back into the situation, ask gz if he had a problem, and then punch him in the nose and proceed to whoop his ass badly, hitting him and smashing his head on the ground, do you think gz is justified in defending himself?
You can play the IF game all day. It is really obvious that you are wanting so bad for Zimmerman to be justified and are looking for any IFs that in your opinion would make it so. Last night you said that you would authorize your own daughter "to use force if necessary in the event that she felt threatened" so why not Trayvon? You never did answer that either, just saying that following someone is not illegal.

So. What IF Zimmerman showed/brought out his gun when he confronted Trayvon. Does that give Trayvon the right to defend himself? What IF Trayvon tried to walk away and Zimmerman stopped him by grabbing his arm/clothes? Both of these IFs would be much more consistent with their behaviours leading up to that point (Trayvon being the one trying to get home and Zimmerman not wanting another one of "these assholes" to get away). Have you even bothered to look at those IFs?

As for it being common practice to delete the part of someone's post that you don't want to answer - the sentence you deleted was a direct response to your accusing me of "bringing emotion into this". You didn't answer because you didn't want to. The question I asked was if that was your example of leaving out details (another thing you accused me of), something you didn't want to answer either. I guess my questions are too hard for you?

The whole situation was created by Zimmerman. He is responsible for Trayvon's death. Should Florida law make him justified in shooting an innocent boy like that, then anyone could walk up to a person and provoke them to attack - and then shoot them dead.
Whoa back up the truck Msjaz. Let's start with the "question" that you claim is too hard for me to answer. Here it is

"Actually, an innocent young boy is dead. That is what creates emotion in this case. Not anyone's words on a internet discussion forum."

I think that one is too hard for anyone to answer since apparently it would require an understanding of your proprietary language..... In English, however that isn't even a question.

Next, if you had actually read my posts you would see that I repeatedly said that if gz provoked the confrontation then he is in the wrong and should at least be guilty of manslaughter. Just like my daughter, if tm was threatened then he had a right to defend himself. If he doubled back as gz was walking to his truck and assaulted him, then that is no longer defense. Regarding all of your other "ifs" they amount to whether or not gz provoked the physical confrontation. If so, then it is his fault.

How in the hell is that being biased or me "wanting so badly" for Zimmerman to be justified? I am just considering both sides as any rational human being would do. You are clearly only looking at one side.
The question I asked was if that was your example of leaving out details (another thing you accused me of), something you didn't want to answer either. In the post above yours. I didn't say that the deleted sentence was a question. I said it was a sentence. I am fully aware of the difference, even in English.

The point with the IFs is, that you are constantly assuming things saying "if that is what happened". My impression is that most, if not all of the IFs in your posts are tilted in favor of Zimmerman. If I have missed a few, I apologize but that is the overall impression I have after reading this thread over the last few weeks.

Also, dragging someone's knowledge of the language into a discussion about a totally subject other than anything closely related to linguistics seems a little silly, to be quite honest. In Norwegian, we would actually call it rude.
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MsJazen May 20 2012, 08:02 PM Post #439
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Oh, and by the way. The correct English spelling of relevant is not "relevent".
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sirbrianwilson May 20 2012, 08:05 PM Post #440
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I haven't been following this case but I have a question. Did the coroners report say how far away from Trayvon the gun was discharged?

br
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Mr Gray May 20 2012, 08:16 PM Post #441
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May 20 2012, 08:05 PM
I haven't been following this case but I have a question. Did the coroners report say how far away from Trayvon the gun was discharged?

br
Between 1 inch and 18 inches away
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 May 20 2012, 08:33 PM Post #442
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Mr Gray
May 20 2012, 08:16 PM
sirbrianwilson
May 20 2012, 08:05 PM
I haven't been following this case but I have a question. Did the coroners report say how far away from Trayvon the gun was discharged?

br
Between 1 inch and 18 inches away
Anybody who can't tell the difference between 1 and 18 inches is SOMEONE I WANT TO GET WITH.
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Mr Gray May 20 2012, 09:07 PM Post #443
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May 20 2012, 08:33 PM
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May 20 2012, 08:16 PM
sirbrianwilson
May 20 2012, 08:05 PM
I haven't been following this case but I have a question. Did the coroners report say how far away from Trayvon the gun was discharged?

br
Between 1 inch and 18 inches away
Anybody who can't tell the difference between 1 and 18 inches is SOMEONE I WANT TO GET WITH.
Might want to stay away from the ones who can't tell 18 inches.

Posted Image
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson May 20 2012, 09:36 PM Post #444
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where was he shot?

br
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TheBliver May 20 2012, 10:11 PM Post #445
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sirbrianwilson
May 20 2012, 09:36 PM
where was he shot?

br
through the heart
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Jazen May 20 2012, 10:29 PM Post #446
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May 20 2012, 08:33 PM
Anybody who can't tell the difference between 1 and 18 inches is SOMEONE I WANT TO GET WITH.
Same here. I would use the logic X3, and be a complete stud.

Just call me Thumper..you know, for those late lights when "she hears the pounding on the bedpost".

It's an automatic win.
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brumdog44 May 21 2012, 06:08 AM Post #447
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May 20 2012, 10:11 PM
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May 20 2012, 09:36 PM
where was he shot?

br
through the heart
and you're to blame
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brumdog44 May 21 2012, 06:09 AM Post #448
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May 20 2012, 10:29 PM
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May 20 2012, 08:33 PM
Anybody who can't tell the difference between 1 and 18 inches is SOMEONE I WANT TO GET WITH.
Same here. I would use the logic X3, and be a complete stud.

Just call me Thumper..you know, for those late lights when "she hears the pounding on the bedpost".

It's an automatic win.
Come on, Jazen, don't be sophomoric. I was talking about fishing.
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TheBliver May 21 2012, 07:05 AM Post #449
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brumdog44
May 21 2012, 06:08 AM
TheBliver
May 20 2012, 10:11 PM
sirbrianwilson
May 20 2012, 09:36 PM
where was he shot?

br
through the heart
and you're to blame
aaron gives love a bad name
Posted Image

"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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TheBliver May 21 2012, 07:13 AM Post #450
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May 20 2012, 12:05 PM
TheBliver
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Mr Gray
May 19 2012, 11:08 PM
TheBliver
May 19 2012, 09:28 PM
my bias, I'm just being honest...I'm not arguing the case, I'm saying it's not that big of a deal because there is no evidence I've seen yet that says martin was using any drugs that night. There was no paraphernalia found anywhere, no residue from a joint on martin's hands. Again, foregone conclusion he had pot in his system. If you're talking character, then what about zimmerman's former co-worker stating that zimmerman racially targeted him and bullied him at work...Touche
Gz's character flaws don't erase martins. Also we have no proof that he racially targeted someone. We do have proof of him defending a homeless black man though.
you are full of yourself...again...where is the proof that he defended a homeless black man? I know his father said that, is that your proof? Also, his co-worker was interviewed by the FBI and stated he was racially targeted and bullied by GZ, that's more tangible than zimmerman dad saying he defended a homeless man...and I'm guessing other co-workers can back that up...yea, I'm the bias one
I'm not bias at all. It comes down to 2 big "ifs" for me. If gz caught up to tm and instigated the fight either physically or through verbal threats or harassment, then he is at fault and should at least be charged with manslaughter. If gz went back to his car while tm doubled back and assaulted gz, then he had a right to dEfend himself, which includes lethal force if his life was in danger.

Bliver you are by far and away the most bias poster on this subject. Just look at your various ridiculous assertions to date. I realize you have corrected many of them and that's fine. To claim that you aren't bias, however, is absurd.

I want justice based on the facts from both sides. You seem only interested in the facts from tm's side.
I'm no more biased than you, anyone reading this thread can see that...keep it up
Posted Image

"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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