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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,532 Views)
dreachon Dec 6 2012, 09:09 PM Post #586
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HoosierLars
Dec 6 2012, 08:08 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:11 AM
"Ok we don't need you to do that" can really only be interpreted 2 ways.

1) Please don't do that
2) You don't have to do that, but if you'd like to, then by all means please continue to do so

Are you really going with option 2? The 911 operator said GZ didn't have to follow, but if we wanted to then he should?
I agree with Aaron on this one.

"Ok we don't need you to do that" does NOT mean "Please don't do that"

I don't know why most people here are making that translation.

In fact, it's common for someone to say "you don't need to do that" out of politeness, and means, "thanks for doing that, but it really isn't necessary."
That's right. It is common. It's also common to use it as a polite way to tell someone to stop what they're doing. Which is exactly why we need to take context into account. You really think the 911 operator was saying, "thanks for doing that"?
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HoosierLars Dec 6 2012, 09:39 PM Post #587
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dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:09 PM
HoosierLars
Dec 6 2012, 08:08 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:11 AM
"Ok we don't need you to do that" can really only be interpreted 2 ways.

1) Please don't do that
2) You don't have to do that, but if you'd like to, then by all means please continue to do so

Are you really going with option 2? The 911 operator said GZ didn't have to follow, but if we wanted to then he should?
I agree with Aaron on this one.

"Ok we don't need you to do that" does NOT mean "Please don't do that"

I don't know why most people here are making that translation.

In fact, it's common for someone to say "you don't need to do that" out of politeness, and means, "thanks for doing that, but it really isn't necessary."
That's right. It is common. It's also common to use it as a polite way to tell someone to stop what they're doing. Which is exactly why we need to take context into account. You really think the 911 operator was saying, "thanks for doing that"?
I don't know, and that's the point. It's unclear. I think people interpret the intended meaning based on their feelings about using guns. If you are in general against gun ownership, and individuals using guns for protection, it's clear that the operator was saying "please don't do that."
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dreachon Dec 6 2012, 10:10 PM Post #588
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HoosierLars
Dec 6 2012, 09:39 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:09 PM
HoosierLars
Dec 6 2012, 08:08 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:11 AM
"Ok we don't need you to do that" can really only be interpreted 2 ways.

1) Please don't do that
2) You don't have to do that, but if you'd like to, then by all means please continue to do so

Are you really going with option 2? The 911 operator said GZ didn't have to follow, but if we wanted to then he should?
I agree with Aaron on this one.

"Ok we don't need you to do that" does NOT mean "Please don't do that"

I don't know why most people here are making that translation.

In fact, it's common for someone to say "you don't need to do that" out of politeness, and means, "thanks for doing that, but it really isn't necessary."
That's right. It is common. It's also common to use it as a polite way to tell someone to stop what they're doing. Which is exactly why we need to take context into account. You really think the 911 operator was saying, "thanks for doing that"?
I don't know, and that's the point. It's unclear. I think people interpret the intended meaning based on their feelings about using guns. If you are in general against gun ownership, and individuals using guns for protection, it's clear that the operator was saying "please don't do that."
How exactly do you interpret what the operator said?
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TheBliver Dec 7 2012, 08:28 AM Post #589
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look who's delusional...same shit different day with this one
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Mr Gray Dec 7 2012, 09:34 AM Post #590
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TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 08:28 AM
look who's delusional...same shit different day with this one
I agree. You are changing the meaning of the exact quote from someone to fit your view of the situation and case against GZ.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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TheBliver Dec 7 2012, 10:22 AM Post #591
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Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 09:34 AM
TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 08:28 AM
look who's delusional...same shit different day with this one
I agree. You are changing the meaning of the exact quote from someone to fit your view of the situation and case against GZ.
no I'm not, you are
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Mr Gray Dec 7 2012, 10:33 AM Post #592
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TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 10:22 AM
Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 09:34 AM
TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 08:28 AM
look who's delusional...same shit different day with this one
I agree. You are changing the meaning of the exact quote from someone to fit your view of the situation and case against GZ.
no I'm not, you are
Really....well, let's take another look at it then

Operator said WORD FOR WORD: "we don't need you to do that"

I am calling it EXACTLY as it is, meaning that the police DO NOT NEED HIM TO DO THAT.

You are changing it to mean DO NOT DO THAT.

So.....you are changing the statement, I am using the EXACT statement, yet you somehow think I'm the one changing it....bizarre.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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TheBliver Dec 7 2012, 10:39 AM Post #593
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what the fuck does...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...mean to you aaron??????? again, the dispatcher asked the question, ok, are you following along, ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM??? That's a question pertaining to what GZ is doing at that moment...right? So, GZ answers that question with, YES...right??? so, the dispatcher then says to GZ based on his question to him and GZ's response...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...aka...we don't need you to following him...what part of that to you means...oh no, it's ok...go ahead and follow him??? Talk about bizarre!

you have to take the whole conversation into context, not just one line.
Edited by TheBliver, Dec 7 2012, 10:40 AM.
Posted Image

"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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Mr Gray Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM Post #594
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TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 10:39 AM
what the fuck does...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...mean to you aaron??????? again, the dispatcher asked the question, ok, are you following along, ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM??? That's a question pertaining to what GZ is doing at that moment...right? So, GZ answers that question with, YES...right??? so, the dispatcher then says to GZ based on his question to him and GZ's response...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...aka...we don't need you to following him...what part of that to you means...oh no, it's ok...go ahead and follow him??? Talk about bizarre!
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not, but what we do know is that they DID NOT tell him not to follow. Cops are great at giving orders, so I don't know why you don't think he would have specifically said "do not follow him".
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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TheBliver Dec 7 2012, 10:49 AM Post #595
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Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM
TheBliver
Dec 7 2012, 10:39 AM
what the fuck does...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...mean to you aaron??????? again, the dispatcher asked the question, ok, are you following along, ARE YOU FOLLOWING HIM??? That's a question pertaining to what GZ is doing at that moment...right? So, GZ answers that question with, YES...right??? so, the dispatcher then says to GZ based on his question to him and GZ's response...WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT...aka...we don't need you to following him...what part of that to you means...oh no, it's ok...go ahead and follow him??? Talk about bizarre!
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not, but what we do know is that they DID NOT tell him not to follow. Cops are great at giving orders, so I don't know why you don't think he would have specifically said "do not follow him".
He did, that's what "WE DON'T NEED YOU TO DO THAT" means...this is laughable, I've got better things to do, enjoy yourself aaron.
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"Keep close to Nature's heart... and break clear away, once in awhile, and climb a mountain or spend a week in the woods. Wash your spirit clean."
John Muir

"Swift or smooth, broad as the Hudson or narrow enough to scrape your gunwales, every river is a world of its own, unique in pattern and personality. Each mile on a river will take you further from home than a hundred miles on a road."
Bob Marshall
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dreachon Dec 7 2012, 11:28 AM Post #596
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Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not,
Aaron, phrases have meanings. Let me give you another example.

"It's all downhill from here"
Meaning 1: Everything should be easier now. "Yes! We just got the most difficult puzzle piece. It's all downhill from here."

Meaning 2: Everything is getting worse. "They just scored a another touchdown. The season is all downhill from here."

When someone says, "it's all downhill from here" context is needed in order to appropriately interpret which meaning is being used.

"We don't need you to do that"
Meaning 1: Your help is appreciated. "Oh my thanks for staying to clean up after the party. You don't need to do that." (this implies that the person will continue to do what they are doing, and you acknowledge that)

Meaning 2: Please stop what you are doing. "Mom, you are calling my professors about my finals week schedule? You don't need to do that."


As far as I'm aware, there's not another way to interpret these phrases. So, what are the chances the dispatcher was saying, "Thank you for pursuing, George. You don't need to do that." With the implication that George will continue to follow and the dispatcher acknowledges that. The answer, in my opinion, is 0%. I think there is zero chance this was the meaning of the dispatcher. Which means, by process of elimination, the dispatcher must have been telling George to stop following.
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Mr Gray Dec 7 2012, 11:34 AM Post #597
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Dec 7 2012, 11:28 AM
Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not,
Aaron, phrases have meanings. Let me give you another example.

"It's all downhill from here"
Meaning 1: Everything should be easier now. "Yes! We just got the most difficult puzzle piece. It's all downhill from here."

Meaning 2: Everything is getting worse. "They just scored a another touchdown. The season is all downhill from here."

When someone says, "it's all downhill from here" context is needed in order to appropriately interpret which meaning is being used.

"We don't need you to do that"
Meaning 1: Your help is appreciated. "Oh my thanks for staying to clean up after the party. You don't need to do that." (this implies that the person will continue to do what they are doing, and you acknowledge that)

Meaning 2: Please stop what you are doing. "Mom, you are calling my professors about my finals week schedule? You don't need to do that."


As far as I'm aware, there's not another way to interpret these phrases. So, what are the chances the dispatcher was saying, "Thank you for pursuing, George. You don't need to do that." With the implication that George will continue to follow and the dispatcher acknowledges that. The answer, in my opinion, is 0%. I think there is zero chance this was the meaning of the dispatcher. Which means, by process of elimination, the dispatcher must have been telling George to stop following.
I had lunch yesterday with a business partner

Waitress: Will this be one check or 2
Me: One, I've got it
Partner: You don't need to do that


Is the partner telling me NOT to do that? No, he's telling me EXACTLY what he said...I don't need to, he can handle it himself. He isn't telling me not to, and in fact, I still bought.
Edited by Mr Gray, Dec 7 2012, 11:35 AM.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Dec 7 2012, 11:37 AM Post #598
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dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 10:10 PM
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Dec 6 2012, 09:39 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:09 PM
HoosierLars
Dec 6 2012, 08:08 PM
dreachon
Dec 6 2012, 09:11 AM
"Ok we don't need you to do that" can really only be interpreted 2 ways.

1) Please don't do that
2) You don't have to do that, but if you'd like to, then by all means please continue to do so

Are you really going with option 2? The 911 operator said GZ didn't have to follow, but if we wanted to then he should?
I agree with Aaron on this one.

"Ok we don't need you to do that" does NOT mean "Please don't do that"

I don't know why most people here are making that translation.

In fact, it's common for someone to say "you don't need to do that" out of politeness, and means, "thanks for doing that, but it really isn't necessary."
That's right. It is common. It's also common to use it as a polite way to tell someone to stop what they're doing. Which is exactly why we need to take context into account. You really think the 911 operator was saying, "thanks for doing that"?
I don't know, and that's the point. It's unclear. I think people interpret the intended meaning based on their feelings about using guns. If you are in general against gun ownership, and individuals using guns for protection, it's clear that the operator was saying "please don't do that."
How exactly do you interpret what the operator said?
I honestly don't know.

If the operator believes that it's helpful for concerned citizens to get involved with neighborhood watches, she could have been thinking, "It's great that this guy is getting personally involved to help the police, but the person he's following could be dangerous, and I don't want GZ to take this much personal risk." In this case, my previous definition holds, e.g.

After watching the Seahawks destroy the Giants, and eating a post-game dinner:
Dreach: "Lars, dinner's on me."
Lars: "You don't have to do that." Meaning, "that's a very kind offer."
Lars: "I'll get the tip and buy drinks."

EDIT: Wow, I just saw that Aaron also used an eating example. :D
Edited by HoosierLars, Dec 7 2012, 11:38 AM.
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dreachon Dec 7 2012, 12:04 PM Post #599
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Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 11:34 AM
dreachon
Dec 7 2012, 11:28 AM
Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not,
Aaron, phrases have meanings. Let me give you another example.

"It's all downhill from here"
Meaning 1: Everything should be easier now. "Yes! We just got the most difficult puzzle piece. It's all downhill from here."

Meaning 2: Everything is getting worse. "They just scored a another touchdown. The season is all downhill from here."

When someone says, "it's all downhill from here" context is needed in order to appropriately interpret which meaning is being used.

"We don't need you to do that"
Meaning 1: Your help is appreciated. "Oh my thanks for staying to clean up after the party. You don't need to do that." (this implies that the person will continue to do what they are doing, and you acknowledge that)

Meaning 2: Please stop what you are doing. "Mom, you are calling my professors about my finals week schedule? You don't need to do that."


As far as I'm aware, there's not another way to interpret these phrases. So, what are the chances the dispatcher was saying, "Thank you for pursuing, George. You don't need to do that." With the implication that George will continue to follow and the dispatcher acknowledges that. The answer, in my opinion, is 0%. I think there is zero chance this was the meaning of the dispatcher. Which means, by process of elimination, the dispatcher must have been telling George to stop following.
I had lunch yesterday with a business partner

Waitress: Will this be one check or 2
Me: One, I've got it
Partner: You don't need to do that


Is the partner telling me NOT to do that? No, he's telling me EXACTLY what he said...I don't need to, he can handle it himself. He isn't telling me not to, and in fact, I still bought.
Your partner is using the phrase in terms of meaning 1. "Oh thank you aaron, you don't need to do that." While acknowledging that you are indeed going to pay for the meal. See? 2 possible meanings emerge from that phrase. Meaning 1 isn't one of the possible meanings when the dispatcher said it.
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Mr Gray Dec 7 2012, 12:53 PM Post #600
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dreachon
Dec 7 2012, 12:04 PM
Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 11:34 AM
dreachon
Dec 7 2012, 11:28 AM
Mr Gray
Dec 7 2012, 10:42 AM
"we don't need you to do that" means "we don't need you to do that". I don't know for sure if they wanted GZ to follow him or not,
Aaron, phrases have meanings. Let me give you another example.

"It's all downhill from here"
Meaning 1: Everything should be easier now. "Yes! We just got the most difficult puzzle piece. It's all downhill from here."

Meaning 2: Everything is getting worse. "They just scored a another touchdown. The season is all downhill from here."

When someone says, "it's all downhill from here" context is needed in order to appropriately interpret which meaning is being used.

"We don't need you to do that"
Meaning 1: Your help is appreciated. "Oh my thanks for staying to clean up after the party. You don't need to do that." (this implies that the person will continue to do what they are doing, and you acknowledge that)

Meaning 2: Please stop what you are doing. "Mom, you are calling my professors about my finals week schedule? You don't need to do that."


As far as I'm aware, there's not another way to interpret these phrases. So, what are the chances the dispatcher was saying, "Thank you for pursuing, George. You don't need to do that." With the implication that George will continue to follow and the dispatcher acknowledges that. The answer, in my opinion, is 0%. I think there is zero chance this was the meaning of the dispatcher. Which means, by process of elimination, the dispatcher must have been telling George to stop following.
I had lunch yesterday with a business partner

Waitress: Will this be one check or 2
Me: One, I've got it
Partner: You don't need to do that


Is the partner telling me NOT to do that? No, he's telling me EXACTLY what he said...I don't need to, he can handle it himself. He isn't telling me not to, and in fact, I still bought.
Your partner is using the phrase in terms of meaning 1. "Oh thank you aaron, you don't need to do that." While acknowledging that you are indeed going to pay for the meal. See? 2 possible meanings emerge from that phrase. Meaning 1 isn't one of the possible meanings when the dispatcher said it.
I think in the context of accusing someone of murder (dreach, you of all people on here have the worst track record of jumping to conclusions on the Zimmerman case), you should deal in facts. He wasn't told or ordered not to do anything. He was told that he didn't need to. Truth be told, the 911 operator might have felt that it would be helpful for GZ to follow TM, but obviously didn't want to come right out and say "please follow him" because they could get in a lot of trouble for that.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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