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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,521 Views)
brumdog44 May 21 2013, 04:31 PM Post #751
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dut1101
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dut1101
May 21 2013, 10:10 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely rooting for a 17 year old child that was gunned down by an idiot that was carrying a loaded gun in a residential neighborhood. I just don't get how simply walking down the sidewalk can be construed as "suspicious" -- and those are Zimmerman's words, not mine.

He's charged with second degree murder, which I think he'll get. Guess I should reserve my child murderer comment for when it happens. And it will.



just bc you're older now doesn't make a 17 yr old a child
Legally, it does.
ever heard of emancipation?? working as a teacher I would think you would at some point (not sure what grade you teach)... assuming your a high school teacher... further more explain to me how some minors are tried as adults.... I will accept minor or juvenile but in absolutely no way is a 17 year old a child look the word up maybe???


p.s.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child

take your "legally" and go fuck yourself

...man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now...
I can admit when I am wrong about something. Legally, children are 14 and under so I would be wrong about them legally being a child so I would be incorrect on that.

The 'go fuck yourself, man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now'....the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be a response I made awhile ago to Lars. If you don't know why he garnered that response, then you haven't been around long enough. Just a suggestion: if you are looking for a board to get into flame wars on, this isn't it. The heated back and forths that have occurred on this board have actual roots, not ones that are just made up. So if the intent of the 'go fuck yourself' was that, I'd suggest you look elsewhere to start that up.
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brumdog44 May 21 2013, 04:40 PM Post #752
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Mr Gray
May 21 2013, 02:52 PM
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May 21 2013, 11:39 AM
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May 21 2013, 11:06 AM
I realize it's wrong to "convict" before proven guilty, but there's something about this case that strikes me in a bitter way. To me, 17 year olds are barely cooked, not even close to being an adult. Others may see it differently, and that's fine, but that's my personal view.

That said, I've never felt so strongly about a case, and I've seen a lot of them, but then again I'm not even sure I've heard of the Stand Your Ground Law until this all happened.

I'm not going to go in circles and argue the evidence as we know it, but I still predict he gets convicted of second degree murder.
I'm curious. If George's version of the story is true, what do you feel he did wrong, and would you still think he will be convicted?
It's hard to stand your ground while you are pursuing. Legally whether it will make a difference, I don't know, but IMO the moment he chose to surrender his rights to 'stand your ground' voluntarily. Just my opinion. I don't know if he will get convicted or not because if his story isn't true, the one guy to refute it isn't around to tell his side of the story.
agreed, but remember...according to George he had given up "pursuit" and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked....so does SYG come back in?
Simply put, I don't know......the question in my mind at that point becomes how a person reasonably would act. The problem I have is that I simply can't see how Zimmerman is afforded stand your ground but Martin is seemingly not. I also think that stand your ground shouldn't allow carte blanch options that allow you to act at will, placing someone else into a defensive position, and say you were 'backing off'. Even if Zimmerman's story was completely true and Martin had approached Zimmerman -- considering that Zimmerman had pursued Martin on foot after leaving his car -- was it unreasonable for Martin to assume that Zimmerman's pursuit was not done, even if he had turned around? I have to say in my mind, someone who was seemingly pursing me for no reason (in Martin's mind, there really shouldn't have been any reasonable reason he was being chased)...he might have felt the best route for completely ending any chance of the pursuit was confrontation. In that case, it could be reasonably argued that Zimmerman's aggressive actions put Martin on the self defense.
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dreachon May 21 2013, 04:52 PM Post #753
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I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
Edited by dreachon, May 21 2013, 04:52 PM.
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dut1101 May 21 2013, 05:44 PM Post #754
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brumdog44
May 21 2013, 04:31 PM
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May 21 2013, 02:46 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 10:10 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely rooting for a 17 year old child that was gunned down by an idiot that was carrying a loaded gun in a residential neighborhood. I just don't get how simply walking down the sidewalk can be construed as "suspicious" -- and those are Zimmerman's words, not mine.

He's charged with second degree murder, which I think he'll get. Guess I should reserve my child murderer comment for when it happens. And it will.



just bc you're older now doesn't make a 17 yr old a child
Legally, it does.
ever heard of emancipation?? working as a teacher I would think you would at some point (not sure what grade you teach)... assuming your a high school teacher... further more explain to me how some minors are tried as adults.... I will accept minor or juvenile but in absolutely no way is a 17 year old a child look the word up maybe???


p.s.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child

take your "legally" and go fuck yourself

...man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now...
I can admit when I am wrong about something. Legally, children are 14 and under so I would be wrong about them legally being a child so I would be incorrect on that.

The 'go fuck yourself, man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now'....the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be a response I made awhile ago to Lars. If you don't know why he garnered that response, then you haven't been around long enough. Just a suggestion: if you are looking for a board to get into flame wars on, this isn't it. The heated back and forths that have occurred on this board have actual roots, not ones that are just made up. So if the intent of the 'go fuck yourself' was that, I'd suggest you look elsewhere to start that up.
Not looking for flame wars if I was I'd be trolling the Purdue board all day... "Wanting to say that for awhile" was somewhat of a joke and somewhat of a stab at you for being such a dick to Lars... And if your convos have roots then then I'd think you'd lose alot of credibility with such an ignorant post (which you've done on multiple occasions)
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mongo May 21 2013, 06:03 PM Post #755
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I wish this George Zimmerman thread would just die already....
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dreachon May 21 2013, 06:17 PM Post #756
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May 21 2013, 05:44 PM
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May 21 2013, 04:31 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 02:54 PM
brumdog44
May 21 2013, 02:46 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 10:10 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely rooting for a 17 year old child that was gunned down by an idiot that was carrying a loaded gun in a residential neighborhood. I just don't get how simply walking down the sidewalk can be construed as "suspicious" -- and those are Zimmerman's words, not mine.

He's charged with second degree murder, which I think he'll get. Guess I should reserve my child murderer comment for when it happens. And it will.



just bc you're older now doesn't make a 17 yr old a child
Legally, it does.
ever heard of emancipation?? working as a teacher I would think you would at some point (not sure what grade you teach)... assuming your a high school teacher... further more explain to me how some minors are tried as adults.... I will accept minor or juvenile but in absolutely no way is a 17 year old a child look the word up maybe???


p.s.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child

take your "legally" and go fuck yourself

...man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now...
I can admit when I am wrong about something. Legally, children are 14 and under so I would be wrong about them legally being a child so I would be incorrect on that.

The 'go fuck yourself, man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now'....the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be a response I made awhile ago to Lars. If you don't know why he garnered that response, then you haven't been around long enough. Just a suggestion: if you are looking for a board to get into flame wars on, this isn't it. The heated back and forths that have occurred on this board have actual roots, not ones that are just made up. So if the intent of the 'go fuck yourself' was that, I'd suggest you look elsewhere to start that up.
Not looking for flame wars if I was I'd be trolling the Purdue board all day... "Wanting to say that for awhile" was somewhat of a joke and somewhat of a stab at you for being such a dick to Lars... And if your convos have roots then then I'd think you'd lose alot of credibility with such an ignorant post (which you've done on multiple occasions)
Awwww. Sticking up for Lars. That's cute.
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dut1101 May 21 2013, 06:25 PM Post #757
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dreachon
May 21 2013, 06:17 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 05:44 PM
brumdog44
May 21 2013, 04:31 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 02:54 PM
brumdog44
May 21 2013, 02:46 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 10:10 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely rooting for a 17 year old child that was gunned down by an idiot that was carrying a loaded gun in a residential neighborhood. I just don't get how simply walking down the sidewalk can be construed as "suspicious" -- and those are Zimmerman's words, not mine.

He's charged with second degree murder, which I think he'll get. Guess I should reserve my child murderer comment for when it happens. And it will.



just bc you're older now doesn't make a 17 yr old a child
Legally, it does.
ever heard of emancipation?? working as a teacher I would think you would at some point (not sure what grade you teach)... assuming your a high school teacher... further more explain to me how some minors are tried as adults.... I will accept minor or juvenile but in absolutely no way is a 17 year old a child look the word up maybe???


p.s.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child

take your "legally" and go fuck yourself

...man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now...
I can admit when I am wrong about something. Legally, children are 14 and under so I would be wrong about them legally being a child so I would be incorrect on that.

The 'go fuck yourself, man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now'....the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be a response I made awhile ago to Lars. If you don't know why he garnered that response, then you haven't been around long enough. Just a suggestion: if you are looking for a board to get into flame wars on, this isn't it. The heated back and forths that have occurred on this board have actual roots, not ones that are just made up. So if the intent of the 'go fuck yourself' was that, I'd suggest you look elsewhere to start that up.
Not looking for flame wars if I was I'd be trolling the Purdue board all day... "Wanting to say that for awhile" was somewhat of a joke and somewhat of a stab at you for being such a dick to Lars... And if your convos have roots then then I'd think you'd lose alot of credibility with such an ignorant post (which you've done on multiple occasions)
Awwww. Sticking up for Lars. That's cute.
Lol yeah just like you're doing for brum should I be offended?
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realtivelynew May 21 2013, 07:12 PM Post #758
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May 21 2013, 06:17 PM
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May 21 2013, 05:44 PM
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May 21 2013, 04:31 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 02:54 PM
brumdog44
May 21 2013, 02:46 PM
dut1101
May 21 2013, 10:10 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 10:03 AM
I'm definitely rooting for a 17 year old child that was gunned down by an idiot that was carrying a loaded gun in a residential neighborhood. I just don't get how simply walking down the sidewalk can be construed as "suspicious" -- and those are Zimmerman's words, not mine.

He's charged with second degree murder, which I think he'll get. Guess I should reserve my child murderer comment for when it happens. And it will.



just bc you're older now doesn't make a 17 yr old a child
Legally, it does.
ever heard of emancipation?? working as a teacher I would think you would at some point (not sure what grade you teach)... assuming your a high school teacher... further more explain to me how some minors are tried as adults.... I will accept minor or juvenile but in absolutely no way is a 17 year old a child look the word up maybe???


p.s.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Child

take your "legally" and go fuck yourself

...man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now...
I can admit when I am wrong about something. Legally, children are 14 and under so I would be wrong about them legally being a child so I would be incorrect on that.

The 'go fuck yourself, man I've been wanting to do that for awhile now'....the only thing I can think of that would cause that would be a response I made awhile ago to Lars. If you don't know why he garnered that response, then you haven't been around long enough. Just a suggestion: if you are looking for a board to get into flame wars on, this isn't it. The heated back and forths that have occurred on this board have actual roots, not ones that are just made up. So if the intent of the 'go fuck yourself' was that, I'd suggest you look elsewhere to start that up.
Not looking for flame wars if I was I'd be trolling the Purdue board all day... "Wanting to say that for awhile" was somewhat of a joke and somewhat of a stab at you for being such a dick to Lars... And if your convos have roots then then I'd think you'd lose alot of credibility with such an ignorant post (which you've done on multiple occasions)
Awwww. Sticking up for Lars. That's cute.
can i stick up for you?
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mongo May 21 2013, 07:29 PM Post #759
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Screw all of you, I'm sticking up for me!
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Mr Gray May 21 2013, 07:39 PM Post #760
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May 21 2013, 04:52 PM
I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
I forget, what makes you think that deadly force wasn't necessary? Do you believe that IF Martin was on top of him hitting his head into the concrete and/or punching him while George couldn't get away, George had some other option?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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mongo May 21 2013, 07:42 PM Post #761
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May 21 2013, 04:52 PM
I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
I forget, what makes you think that deadly force wasn't necessary? Do you believe that IF Martin was on top of him hitting his head into the concrete and/or punching him while George couldn't get away, George had some other option?
If he was getting the ever loving shit kicked out of him, maybe he did what he had to. It all depends on if he's lying about heading back to his truck or not. If he wasn't , then he put himself in that position by pursuing Martin when told not to. I personally think he's lying about heading to his truck to cover his ass. But who knows.
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Mr Gray May 21 2013, 07:52 PM Post #762
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May 21 2013, 02:47 PM
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May 21 2013, 11:39 AM
Jazen
May 21 2013, 11:06 AM
I realize it's wrong to "convict" before proven guilty, but there's something about this case that strikes me in a bitter way. To me, 17 year olds are barely cooked, not even close to being an adult. Others may see it differently, and that's fine, but that's my personal view.

That said, I've never felt so strongly about a case, and I've seen a lot of them, but then again I'm not even sure I've heard of the Stand Your Ground Law until this all happened.

I'm not going to go in circles and argue the evidence as we know it, but I still predict he gets convicted of second degree murder.
I'm curious. If George's version of the story is true, what do you feel he did wrong, and would you still think he will be convicted?
It's hard to stand your ground while you are pursuing. Legally whether it will make a difference, I don't know, but IMO the moment he chose to surrender his rights to 'stand your ground' voluntarily. Just my opinion. I don't know if he will get convicted or not because if his story isn't true, the one guy to refute it isn't around to tell his side of the story.
agreed, but remember...according to George he had given up "pursuit" and was walking back to his truck when he was attacked....so does SYG come back in?
Simply put, I don't know......the question in my mind at that point becomes how a person reasonably would act. The problem I have is that I simply can't see how Zimmerman is afforded stand your ground but Martin is seemingly not. I also think that stand your ground shouldn't allow carte blanch options that allow you to act at will, placing someone else into a defensive position, and say you were 'backing off'. Even if Zimmerman's story was completely true and Martin had approached Zimmerman -- considering that Zimmerman had pursued Martin on foot after leaving his car -- was it unreasonable for Martin to assume that Zimmerman's pursuit was not done, even if he had turned around? I have to say in my mind, someone who was seemingly pursing me for no reason (in Martin's mind, there really shouldn't have been any reasonable reason he was being chased)...he might have felt the best route for completely ending any chance of the pursuit was confrontation. In that case, it could be reasonably argued that Zimmerman's aggressive actions put Martin on the self defense.
I think that if he had gotten away as George says and then came back to start a fight while George was walking to his truck, then there is risk associated with that just as there would be with instigating any fight. I'm not convinced that that's what actually happened because if Martin wanted to fight, then I don't know why he would have run away in the first place.....but from a legal standpoint I see no evidence to the contrary and George is innocent until proven guilty.

I really can't even form an opinion as to what really happened, and I've racked my brain trying. I know Martin ran and George ran after. I just can't figure out why further confrontation had to happen. I think Martin could have easily gotten away when running and a map of the place doesn't indicate that he would have been trapped anywhere. And as I said above, I don't know why he would run awAy and then come back to fight, as opposed to just standing and fighting g from the beginning. I suppose he could have had a delayed temper and/or realized that he could take George, but that is less than speculative. Maybe George called him a nigger or something that enraged him....just don't know.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon May 21 2013, 08:24 PM Post #763
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I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
I forget, what makes you think that deadly force wasn't necessary? Do you believe that IF Martin was on top of him hitting his head into the concrete and/or punching him while George couldn't get away, George had some other option?
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.
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Mr Gray May 21 2013, 08:42 PM Post #764
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I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
I forget, what makes you think that deadly force wasn't necessary? Do you believe that IF Martin was on top of him hitting his head into the concrete and/or punching him while George couldn't get away, George had some other option?
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.
I understand what you're saying, but don't you think it's probable that once a person gets to the point of severely cut, concussed, or other such serious injuries, that it may be too late for them to be able to defend themselves?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon May 21 2013, 08:57 PM Post #765
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May 21 2013, 07:39 PM
dreachon
May 21 2013, 04:52 PM
I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.
I forget, what makes you think that deadly force wasn't necessary? Do you believe that IF Martin was on top of him hitting his head into the concrete and/or punching him while George couldn't get away, George had some other option?
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.
I understand what you're saying, but don't you think it's probable that once a person gets to the point of severely cut, concussed, or other such serious injuries, that it may be too late for them to be able to defend themselves?
It's possible, but I've been a fight before. I didn't think I was going to DIE. I feel like there is a very distinct point when you believe the person you are fighting will kill you. The injuries inflicted just don't seem serious enough to come to that conclusion. I mean did Zimmerman really do EVERYTHING he could to avoid shooting Martin? He didn't identify himself? He didn't give any warning? He didn't try to run away? I mean admittedly it wasn't me there so I'm merely speculating. Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though.

And keep in mind. I'm not on the jury. I don't need unequivocal proof to have an opinion. If I was a jury member the standard of proof would be much higher obviously.
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