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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,513 Views)
Mr Gray Jun 28 2013, 03:34 PM Post #871
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There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
If you don't think Zimmerman profiled Martin, you are kidding yourself.
wow....you have absolutely no evidence of that, yet you are sure. Unbelievable how much you go along with the ignorant mentality that actions by whites (or half whites/hispanics in this case) is racial. Sad actually.
Screw your holier than thou mentality and your inability to actually read what I posted. Funny how you conveniently lump whites with Hispanic individuals as well....as if you feel that I only think that black individuals could be profiled.

My statement was that Zimmerman profiled him because of something....could be skin color, could be how he was dressed, but it had to be something or HE DOES'T CALL THE POLICE NOR PURSUE HIM. He did not see him committing a crime...varying an exposed weapon....so he to be profiling him based on something. What is pathetic is that when I say it had to be something that made him profile him as a criminal and offer one possibility that it could be his skin color, you shudder at that notion that skin color could even *gasp* be a possibility.

Zimmerman's gut feeling was tha Martin was up to no good. But that was not based on actual observed illegal actions that Martin did....therefore, he had to profile him as being a criminal based on something or a combination of things. But indicated that one of those things COULD be racial makes me ignorant? Really? Are you willing to say that it absolutely was not? If not, get off my back for saying it could be instead of accusing me of saying that it was.
I have seen no evidence that he was carrying an "exposed weapon" nor have I seen any evidence of racial profiling. We do, however, have evidence of Martin's racism.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jun 28 2013, 04:32 PM Post #872
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There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
I'm guessing probably not... GZ isn't even a fit for the racial slur "cracker". Without knowing exactly what happened in the beginning of the altercation I'm finding it hard to believe there will be a conviction out of this... Who's to say TM wouldn't have killed GZ by continuously slamming his head into the pavement, had GZ not shot him?
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
Fail
I guess those weren't your exact words, but it's hard to deny what you were indicating here.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/51/
Quote:
 
Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though



http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/52/
Quote:
 
But no, I don't think Martin should have used deadly force in his self defense unless he felt his life was imminently in danger.
What I'm indicating is that 2 scratches not requiring any medical attention on the back of his head is NOT indicative of someone getting their head slammed into the ground. I don't believe Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground. How you managed to translate that into me not thinking it's life threatening to have your head slammed into the ground repeatedly, well, I'll never know.
Aaron, I assume yer going to retract your gross misrepresentation of my opinion.
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dut1101 Jun 28 2013, 04:41 PM Post #873
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Obviously profiling was involved but i don't necessarily think it was race could have been age or the clothes he was wearing... GZ found him suspicious and persued him... What happened in between is where guilt will be proven IMO... If GZ is true ly guilty and doesn't get convicted I will blame the girl friend bc she was on the phone with him while TM was being followed and could have shed so much more light on the case than she did... She was unattached to the role she could play in the case by lying being disrespectful to lawyers questioning and overall she just isnt very bright... its more so that she didn't want to be a part of any of this than actually helping her friend and his family seek justice
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brumdog44 Jun 28 2013, 04:45 PM Post #874
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There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
If you don't think Zimmerman profiled Martin, you are kidding yourself.
wow....you have absolutely no evidence of that, yet you are sure. Unbelievable how much you go along with the ignorant mentality that actions by whites (or half whites/hispanics in this case) is racial. Sad actually.
Screw your holier than thou mentality and your inability to actually read what I posted. Funny how you conveniently lump whites with Hispanic individuals as well....as if you feel that I only think that black individuals could be profiled.

My statement was that Zimmerman profiled him because of something....could be skin color, could be how he was dressed, but it had to be something or HE DOES'T CALL THE POLICE NOR PURSUE HIM. He did not see him committing a crime...varying an exposed weapon....so he to be profiling him based on something. What is pathetic is that when I say it had to be something that made him profile him as a criminal and offer one possibility that it could be his skin color, you shudder at that notion that skin color could even *gasp* be a possibility.

Zimmerman's gut feeling was tha Martin was up to no good. But that was not based on actual observed illegal actions that Martin did....therefore, he had to profile him as being a criminal based on something or a combination of things. But indicated that one of those things COULD be racial makes me ignorant? Really? Are you willing to say that it absolutely was not? If not, get off my back for saying it could be instead of accusing me of saying that it was.
I have seen no evidence that he was carrying an "exposed weapon" nor have I seen any evidence of racial profiling. We do, however, have evidence of Martin's racism.
First, in terms of the post that you asked if it w,as dreach's or mine, that was mine because I misread who your reply was to.

Martin's racism has nothing to do with him committing a crime. We do have evidence of him being pursued for no reason.
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Mr Gray Jun 28 2013, 04:59 PM Post #875
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Jun 28 2013, 12:54 PM
There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
I'm guessing probably not... GZ isn't even a fit for the racial slur "cracker". Without knowing exactly what happened in the beginning of the altercation I'm finding it hard to believe there will be a conviction out of this... Who's to say TM wouldn't have killed GZ by continuously slamming his head into the pavement, had GZ not shot him?
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
Fail
I guess those weren't your exact words, but it's hard to deny what you were indicating here.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/51/
Quote:
 
Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though



http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/52/
Quote:
 
But no, I don't think Martin should have used deadly force in his self defense unless he felt his life was imminently in danger.
What I'm indicating is that 2 scratches not requiring any medical attention on the back of his head is NOT indicative of someone getting their head slammed into the ground. I don't believe Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground. How you managed to translate that into me not thinking it's life threatening to have your head slammed into the ground repeatedly, well, I'll never know.
Aaron, I assume yer going to retract your gross misrepresentation of my opinion.
Lets clarify your opinion because it has "evolved" all over the place. If Martin was on top of GZ hitting him and/or slamming his head into the ground, was GZ's life potentially in danger?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jun 28 2013, 05:01 PM Post #876
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Jun 28 2013, 01:48 PM
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Jun 28 2013, 12:54 PM
There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
If you don't think Zimmerman profiled Martin, you are kidding yourself.
wow....you have absolutely no evidence of that, yet you are sure. Unbelievable how much you go along with the ignorant mentality that actions by whites (or half whites/hispanics in this case) is racial. Sad actually.
Screw your holier than thou mentality and your inability to actually read what I posted. Funny how you conveniently lump whites with Hispanic individuals as well....as if you feel that I only think that black individuals could be profiled.

My statement was that Zimmerman profiled him because of something....could be skin color, could be how he was dressed, but it had to be something or HE DOES'T CALL THE POLICE NOR PURSUE HIM. He did not see him committing a crime...varying an exposed weapon....so he to be profiling him based on something. What is pathetic is that when I say it had to be something that made him profile him as a criminal and offer one possibility that it could be his skin color, you shudder at that notion that skin color could even *gasp* be a possibility.

Zimmerman's gut feeling was tha Martin was up to no good. But that was not based on actual observed illegal actions that Martin did....therefore, he had to profile him as being a criminal based on something or a combination of things. But indicated that one of those things COULD be racial makes me ignorant? Really? Are you willing to say that it absolutely was not? If not, get off my back for saying it could be instead of accusing me of saying that it was.
I have seen no evidence that he was carrying an "exposed weapon" nor have I seen any evidence of racial profiling. We do, however, have evidence of Martin's racism.
First, in terms of the post that you asked if it w,as dreach's or mine, that was mine because I misread who your reply was to.

Martin's racism has nothing to do with him committing a crime. We do have evidence of him being pursued for no reason.
I don't recall you aiming that zimmermans actions were motivated by racism. Dreach did in the beginning.

If racism can be used as a motivation for GZs actions, why not Martins?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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mongo Jun 28 2013, 05:08 PM Post #877
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Are we being serious right now? There was very obviously profiling occurring. Whether some of you want to believe it still happens in the 21st century or not, unfortunately it does. Take the prosecutors opening line, quoting Zimmerman. What exactly do you think Zimmerman was referring to?
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dreachon Jun 28 2013, 06:00 PM Post #878
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There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
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dreachon Jun 28 2013, 06:05 PM Post #879
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There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
I'm guessing probably not... GZ isn't even a fit for the racial slur "cracker". Without knowing exactly what happened in the beginning of the altercation I'm finding it hard to believe there will be a conviction out of this... Who's to say TM wouldn't have killed GZ by continuously slamming his head into the pavement, had GZ not shot him?
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
Fail
I guess those weren't your exact words, but it's hard to deny what you were indicating here.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/51/
Quote:
 
Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though



http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/52/
Quote:
 
But no, I don't think Martin should have used deadly force in his self defense unless he felt his life was imminently in danger.
What I'm indicating is that 2 scratches not requiring any medical attention on the back of his head is NOT indicative of someone getting their head slammed into the ground. I don't believe Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground. How you managed to translate that into me not thinking it's life threatening to have your head slammed into the ground repeatedly, well, I'll never know.
Aaron, I assume yer going to retract your gross misrepresentation of my opinion.
Lets clarify your opinion because it has "evolved" all over the place. If Martin was on top of GZ hitting him and/or slamming his head into the ground, was GZ's life potentially in danger?
:yourock: My position hasn't evolved anywhere. You quite purposefully misrepresented my opinion. Link where I said getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Now, at one point I did say that I personally would not have used deadly force if I was martin. I would have done enough to get away and call the cops and that is it, but I have been very consistent in saying that if martin had the right to the stand your ground law based on zimmermans prior actions.
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dreachon Jun 28 2013, 06:06 PM Post #880
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Ignore the you rock emoticon. Hit it on my phone by accident.
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brumdog44 Jun 28 2013, 06:11 PM Post #881
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I don't recall you aiming that zimmermans actions were motivated by racism. Dreach did in the beginning.

If racism can be used as a motivation for GZs actions, why not Martins?
As you said, I didn't aim at Zimmerman's actions as being motivated by racism. Could they be? Absolutely. But to me that isn't the issue.

Regardless of why he pursued Martin at the beginning, he did it because he profiled him as a criminal (we can get into semenatics -- 'a potential criminal threat', etc, but that's also not the issue).

But what was Martin's initial response to the fight or flight situation? It was evasion. So if it were simply a case of racially motivated aggression, it sure does not make sense that Martin would look to get out of a potential confrontation.

It also simply does not make sense to me that Zimmerman's version follows logic....Martin evaded and then after Zimmerman stopped following and turned around to go back, Martin confronted him. So one would have to believe that someone -- after successfully evaded pursuit -- would THEN choose to initiate confrontation?

And if we are going to examine state of mind -- i.e., Martin making a racial comment -- then we sure as heck have to look at the 9-1-1 history of Zimmerman calls in that he most certainly have to assume that Zimmerman had a very documented history of misinterpreting actual threats and it would certainly raise doubts as to his assertion that his life was in danger as well as his assertion that he was not the aggressor.
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Mr Gray Jun 28 2013, 06:24 PM Post #882
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I don't recall you aiming that zimmermans actions were motivated by racism. Dreach did in the beginning.

If racism can be used as a motivation for GZs actions, why not Martins?
As you said, I didn't aim at Zimmerman's actions as being motivated by racism. Could they be? Absolutely. But to me that isn't the issue.

Regardless of why he pursued Martin at the beginning, he did it because he profiled him as a criminal (we can get into semenatics -- 'a potential criminal threat', etc, but that's also not the issue).

But what was Martin's initial response to the fight or flight situation? It was evasion. So if it were simply a case of racially motivated aggression, it sure does not make sense that Martin would look to get out of a potential confrontation.

It also simply does not make sense to me that Zimmerman's version follows logic....Martin evaded and then after Zimmerman stopped following and turned around to go back, Martin confronted him. So one would have to believe that someone -- after successfully evaded pursuit -- would THEN choose to initiate confrontation?

And if we are going to examine state of mind -- i.e., Martin making a racial comment -- then we sure as heck have to look at the 9-1-1 history of Zimmerman calls in that he most certainly have to assume that Zimmerman had a very documented history of misinterpreting actual threats and it would certainly raise doubts as to his assertion that his life was in danger as well as his assertion that he was not the aggressor.
For the record, Martin technically was a criminal, so GZ did profile him in that regard correctly.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Martin to evade and then come back to fight. I can't really make sense of the physical confrontation at all. There is no way that GZ actually caught TM on foot to start a fight either. I can come up with reasons that TM would run and then come back to fight, but they are thin speculation and don't really help this discussion.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jun 28 2013, 06:28 PM Post #883
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Ignore the you rock emoticon. Hit it on my phone by accident.
I would ignore it for you Dreach, but I really do rock even if I was not part of the conversation and tend to take it as confirmation of an obvious fact.
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Mr Gray Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM Post #884
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Jun 28 2013, 12:54 PM
There were several people on here who early on said that GZ was a racist who profiled TM because he was black and attacked him accordingly. Now that the girlfriend has stated that TM was a racist, I wonder if people will assume that he attacked GZ because he was a cracker.
I'm guessing probably not... GZ isn't even a fit for the racial slur "cracker". Without knowing exactly what happened in the beginning of the altercation I'm finding it hard to believe there will be a conviction out of this... Who's to say TM wouldn't have killed GZ by continuously slamming his head into the pavement, had GZ not shot him?
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
Fail
I guess those weren't your exact words, but it's hard to deny what you were indicating here.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/51/
Quote:
 
Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though



http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7184833/52/
Quote:
 
But no, I don't think Martin should have used deadly force in his self defense unless he felt his life was imminently in danger.
What I'm indicating is that 2 scratches not requiring any medical attention on the back of his head is NOT indicative of someone getting their head slammed into the ground. I don't believe Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the ground. How you managed to translate that into me not thinking it's life threatening to have your head slammed into the ground repeatedly, well, I'll never know.
Aaron, I assume yer going to retract your gross misrepresentation of my opinion.
Lets clarify your opinion because it has "evolved" all over the place. If Martin was on top of GZ hitting him and/or slamming his head into the ground, was GZ's life potentially in danger?
:yourock: My position hasn't evolved anywhere. You quite purposefully misrepresented my opinion. Link where I said getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Now, at one point I did say that I personally would not have used deadly force if I was martin. I would have done enough to get away and call the cops and that is it, but I have been very consistent in saying that if martin had the right to the stand your ground law based on zimmermans prior actions.
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Jun 28 2013, 06:47 PM Post #885
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I don't recall you aiming that zimmermans actions were motivated by racism. Dreach did in the beginning.

If racism can be used as a motivation for GZs actions, why not Martins?
As you said, I didn't aim at Zimmerman's actions as being motivated by racism. Could they be? Absolutely. But to me that isn't the issue.

Regardless of why he pursued Martin at the beginning, he did it because he profiled him as a criminal (we can get into semenatics -- 'a potential criminal threat', etc, but that's also not the issue).

But what was Martin's initial response to the fight or flight situation? It was evasion. So if it were simply a case of racially motivated aggression, it sure does not make sense that Martin would look to get out of a potential confrontation.

It also simply does not make sense to me that Zimmerman's version follows logic....Martin evaded and then after Zimmerman stopped following and turned around to go back, Martin confronted him. So one would have to believe that someone -- after successfully evaded pursuit -- would THEN choose to initiate confrontation?

And if we are going to examine state of mind -- i.e., Martin making a racial comment -- then we sure as heck have to look at the 9-1-1 history of Zimmerman calls in that he most certainly have to assume that Zimmerman had a very documented history of misinterpreting actual threats and it would certainly raise doubts as to his assertion that his life was in danger as well as his assertion that he was not the aggressor.
For the record, Martin technically was a criminal, so GZ did profile him in that regard correctly.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Martin to evade and then come back to fight. I can't really make sense of the physical confrontation at all. There is no way that GZ actually caught TM on foot to start a fight either. I can come up with reasons that TM would run and then come back to fight, but they are thin speculation and don't really help this discussion.
I think TM was initially scared when he saw GZ, but after further thought, believed he could kick his ass. Either that or he got somewhat confused in a new area, and accidentally came back upon GZ, and the fight ensued.
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