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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,511 Views)
Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 09:18 AM Post #901
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Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I can't go through 60 pages of comments on my phone to find it, and on top of that, we are missing a lot of pages from when multiple threads were combined. You talked about just taking an ass whooping and it not being fatal...etc. the fact that you won't answer a simple yes or no question is telling me that you know I'm right.

I also did provide quotes from you were you clearly insinuated that GZ's life wasn't in danger while being beaten by TM.
Ya know aaron, I wouldn't have expected this from you. I know there have been times when I accidentally misrepresented your opinion, you've called me out on it and I have apologized. You completely made something up and are now fiercely defending your position without a single quote from me even inkling what you said was true. To try and help win your argument you ask me a question while sneakily throwing in "punching and/or slamming". I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed. And for the record, posts don't get lost when threads are combined. They just get put in date order.

Your original quote that started this entire argument:
Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.


Completely false and I have never indicated otherwise. Mostly because someone having their head slammed into the ground is obviously life threatening. However, what I have indicated in regards to the concrete and Zimmerman's injuries has been stated in this thread several times over.

Quote:
 
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.


Quote:
 
If Martin was pummeling him and slamming his head into a curb (I still haven't seen this anywhere, please link) then I would expect Zimmerman to have significant injuries. Not only did Zimmerman not have a concussion, but he didn't even need stitches. 2 scrapes on the back of his head does not equal a life threatening situation.


Quote:
 
The head bleeds a lot, no doubt, but he still needed zero stitches. That's a scratch. The reason having your head slammed into the ground is life threatening is because of the immense damage it can cause. No concussion. No stitches. No medical attention. Hard for me to believe his head was being slammed into the ground.

So what else could cause scratches on the back of the head? Well, if Zimmerman was fighting someone on concrete and he was on his back, I would expect his head would get scratched up.


The quotes of mine that you posted earlier indicate that I didn't feel Zimmerman's life was in imminent danger. That's because I don't believe his head was being slammed into the concrete. NOT because I believe having your had slammed into concrete isn't life threatening.

Now, you've thrown the question of being punched in there even though that wasn't part of the original discussion. I do believe a punch can be deadly. Not just from the punch itself, but if someone falls and hits their head on the ground or some other object, that can be incredibly damaging. That said, I also acknowledge the extreme rarity of people dying from a punch. It's because of this extreme rarity that punching someone is not considered to be using "deadly force." That's why we have assault charges. Otherwise, everyone sued for punching someone would be charged with attempted murder.

Furthermore, the entire discussion over whether Zimmerman's life was actually in danger or not is pretty moot point to me, because as I have also stated several times in this thread, I think the Stand Your Ground law applied to Martin and gave him the right to defend himself.
If we aren't missing parts of the discussion due to combining threads, then why does page one have us discussing the story after the charges are filed? We discussed this story at length prior to that, which is where you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that? I guess that's why I haven't given you much credibility in this discussion. Brum eventually made the met that SYG laws apply to TM first and then you latched onto that after many of your original biased accusations failed.

So you think that getting punched or getting your head slammed into the ground are life threatening but only when you wait long enough to get stitches or a concussion. Got it. I guess a broken nose doesn't count?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 09:19 AM Post #902
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Jun 28 2013, 08:11 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I can't go through 60 pages of comments on my phone to find it, and on top of that, we are missing a lot of pages from when multiple threads were combined. You talked about just taking an ass whooping and it not being fatal...etc. the fact that you won't answer a simple yes or no question is telling me that you know I'm right.

I also did provide quotes from you were you clearly insinuated that GZ's life wasn't in danger while being beaten by TM.
Ya know aaron, I wouldn't have expected this from you. I know there have been times when I accidentally misrepresented your opinion, you've called me out on it and I have apologized. You completely made something up and are now fiercely defending your position without a single quote from me even inkling what you said was true. To try and help win your argument you ask me a question while sneakily throwing in "punching and/or slamming". I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed. And for the record, posts don't get lost when threads are combined. They just get put in date order.

Your original quote that started this entire argument:
Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.


Completely false and I have never indicated otherwise. Mostly because someone having their head slammed into the ground is obviously life threatening. However, what I have indicated in regards to the concrete and Zimmerman's injuries has been stated in this thread several times over.

Quote:
 
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.


Quote:
 
If Martin was pummeling him and slamming his head into a curb (I still haven't seen this anywhere, please link) then I would expect Zimmerman to have significant injuries. Not only did Zimmerman not have a concussion, but he didn't even need stitches. 2 scrapes on the back of his head does not equal a life threatening situation.


Quote:
 
The head bleeds a lot, no doubt, but he still needed zero stitches. That's a scratch. The reason having your head slammed into the ground is life threatening is because of the immense damage it can cause. No concussion. No stitches. No medical attention. Hard for me to believe his head was being slammed into the ground.

So what else could cause scratches on the back of the head? Well, if Zimmerman was fighting someone on concrete and he was on his back, I would expect his head would get scratched up.


The quotes of mine that you posted earlier indicate that I didn't feel Zimmerman's life was in imminent danger. That's because I don't believe his head was being slammed into the concrete. NOT because I believe having your had slammed into concrete isn't life threatening.

Now, you've thrown the question of being punched in there even though that wasn't part of the original discussion. I do believe a punch can be deadly. Not just from the punch itself, but if someone falls and hits their head on the ground or some other object, that can be incredibly damaging. That said, I also acknowledge the extreme rarity of people dying from a punch. It's because of this extreme rarity that punching someone is not considered to be using "deadly force." That's why we have assault charges. Otherwise, everyone sued for punching someone would be charged with attempted murder.

Furthermore, the entire discussion over whether Zimmerman's life was actually in danger or not is pretty moot point to me, because as I have also stated several times in this thread, I think the Stand Your Ground law applied to Martin and gave him the right to defend himself.
That is the point. You weren't there and have no idea if his head was being "slammed" on the ground. How can you assume that it wasn't threatening in GZ's mind. His nose was busted and had a guy on top of him delivering repeated punches....who are you to decide how threatened he should have felt? You both are trying to deal with this by assuming a lot of things. This all happened in a matter of minutes and the physical part probably wasn't even that long....doesn't appear that either party had a lot of time to think about consequences....it was heat of the moment for both once the confrontation started. I'm sure neither party began the evening thinking that anything like this was about to happen. Unless of course you are one of the people thinking that this was a premeditated racial act from the beginning? I personally don't thing Zimmerman set out that night with the sole purpose of confronting and killing a black male. Was he an over zealous neighborhood watch leader, sure....it doesn't mean he set out with the intention of killing someone that night. He's no Aaron Hernandez.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 09:25 AM Post #903
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Jun 28 2013, 11:15 PM
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Jun 28 2013, 08:11 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I can't go through 60 pages of comments on my phone to find it, and on top of that, we are missing a lot of pages from when multiple threads were combined. You talked about just taking an ass whooping and it not being fatal...etc. the fact that you won't answer a simple yes or no question is telling me that you know I'm right.

I also did provide quotes from you were you clearly insinuated that GZ's life wasn't in danger while being beaten by TM.
Ya know aaron, I wouldn't have expected this from you. I know there have been times when I accidentally misrepresented your opinion, you've called me out on it and I have apologized. You completely made something up and are now fiercely defending your position without a single quote from me even inkling what you said was true. To try and help win your argument you ask me a question while sneakily throwing in "punching and/or slamming". I have to say I'm incredibly disappointed. And for the record, posts don't get lost when threads are combined. They just get put in date order.

Your original quote that started this entire argument:
Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.


Completely false and I have never indicated otherwise. Mostly because someone having their head slammed into the ground is obviously life threatening. However, what I have indicated in regards to the concrete and Zimmerman's injuries has been stated in this thread several times over.

Quote:
 
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.


Quote:
 
If Martin was pummeling him and slamming his head into a curb (I still haven't seen this anywhere, please link) then I would expect Zimmerman to have significant injuries. Not only did Zimmerman not have a concussion, but he didn't even need stitches. 2 scrapes on the back of his head does not equal a life threatening situation.


Quote:
 
The head bleeds a lot, no doubt, but he still needed zero stitches. That's a scratch. The reason having your head slammed into the ground is life threatening is because of the immense damage it can cause. No concussion. No stitches. No medical attention. Hard for me to believe his head was being slammed into the ground.

So what else could cause scratches on the back of the head? Well, if Zimmerman was fighting someone on concrete and he was on his back, I would expect his head would get scratched up.


The quotes of mine that you posted earlier indicate that I didn't feel Zimmerman's life was in imminent danger. That's because I don't believe his head was being slammed into the concrete. NOT because I believe having your had slammed into concrete isn't life threatening.

Now, you've thrown the question of being punched in there even though that wasn't part of the original discussion. I do believe a punch can be deadly. Not just from the punch itself, but if someone falls and hits their head on the ground or some other object, that can be incredibly damaging. That said, I also acknowledge the extreme rarity of people dying from a punch. It's because of this extreme rarity that punching someone is not considered to be using "deadly force." That's why we have assault charges. Otherwise, everyone sued for punching someone would be charged with attempted murder.

Furthermore, the entire discussion over whether Zimmerman's life was actually in danger or not is pretty moot point to me, because as I have also stated several times in this thread, I think the Stand Your Ground law applied to Martin and gave him the right to defend himself.
If we aren't missing parts of the discussion due to combining threads, then why does page one have us discussing the story after the charges are filed? We discussed this story at length prior to that, which is where you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that? I guess that's why I haven't given you much credibility in this discussion. Brum eventually made the met that SYG laws apply to TM first and then you latched onto that after many of your original biased accusations failed.

So you think that getting punched or getting your head slammed into the ground are life threatening but only when you wait long enough to get stitches or a concussion. Got it. I guess a broken nose doesn't count?
+1

It may not still be on this thread but Dreach has clearly stated that GZ was not in any danger of being injured or hurt badly by being "grounded and pounded". And using the line of him not even having a concussion or needing stitches is super lame....like every human body receives the same injuries from a given act. His views seem to keep evolving as Martins case erodes, just my opinion.
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BigBlueRampage Jun 29 2013, 10:41 AM Post #904
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Jun 28 2013, 06:11 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 05:01 PM
I don't recall you aiming that zimmermans actions were motivated by racism. Dreach did in the beginning.

If racism can be used as a motivation for GZs actions, why not Martins?
As you said, I didn't aim at Zimmerman's actions as being motivated by racism. Could they be? Absolutely. But to me that isn't the issue.

Regardless of why he pursued Martin at the beginning, he did it because he profiled him as a criminal (we can get into semenatics -- 'a potential criminal threat', etc, but that's also not the issue).

But what was Martin's initial response to the fight or flight situation? It was evasion. So if it were simply a case of racially motivated aggression, it sure does not make sense that Martin would look to get out of a potential confrontation.

It also simply does not make sense to me that Zimmerman's version follows logic....Martin evaded and then after Zimmerman stopped following and turned around to go back, Martin confronted him. So one would have to believe that someone -- after successfully evaded pursuit -- would THEN choose to initiate confrontation?

And if we are going to examine state of mind -- i.e., Martin making a racial comment -- then we sure as heck have to look at the 9-1-1 history of Zimmerman calls in that he most certainly have to assume that Zimmerman had a very documented history of misinterpreting actual threats and it would certainly raise doubts as to his assertion that his life was in danger as well as his assertion that he was not the aggressor.
For the record, Martin technically was a criminal, so GZ did profile him in that regard correctly.

I agree that it doesn't make sense for Martin to evade and then come back to fight. I can't really make sense of the physical confrontation at all. There is no way that GZ actually caught TM on foot to start a fight either. I can come up with reasons that TM would run and then come back to fight, but they are thin speculation and don't really help this discussion.
I think TM was initially scared when he saw GZ, but after further thought, believed he could kick his ass. Either that or he got somewhat confused in a new area, and accidentally came back upon GZ, and the fight ensued.
I've wondered if that was the case the whole time. He didn't live with his Father normally correct? He might not have known the area well enough to know where he was in the dark while being chased by someone.
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BigBlueRampage Jun 29 2013, 10:47 AM Post #905
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There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
Didn't GZ's original 911 call (the one NBC tried to doctor) have him saying that he didn't know what race the person (Martin) was?

Either way, I agree that racial profiling is wrong but it is not murder. You seem to be longing to get a man convicted of murder because he may or may not be profiling.....that's a huge leap.
I wanna see him get convicted of murder because he got out of his car to pursue a teenager that had skittles. His actions regardless of what happened after are the sole purpose for this kid getting shot.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 11:05 AM Post #906
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Jun 28 2013, 06:00 PM
There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
Didn't GZ's original 911 call (the one NBC tried to doctor) have him saying that he didn't know what race the person (Martin) was?

Either way, I agree that racial profiling is wrong but it is not murder. You seem to be longing to get a man convicted of murder because he may or may not be profiling.....that's a huge leap.
I wanna see him get convicted of murder because he got out of his car to pursue a teenager that had skittles. His actions regardless of what happened after are the sole purpose for this kid getting shot.
And I disagree. If he wanted to murder the kid, there would have never been a scuffle. He could have just shot him, try and make up a story afterwards, and that would have been that. He went back to his car and was on phone with police before the two somehow crossed paths again. He did stop pursuing him, why do you guys keep leaving out the facts that we do know and jump to murder? That's not the way the system works, you have no idea what anyone's intentions were that night. Why do you insist on assuming that you do?
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brumdog44 Jun 29 2013, 11:21 AM Post #907
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Either you can point to what you claim Dreachon said or you can't. It's really that simple. Let's not act like searching for something is difficult....some of the links we have posted took a lot of time to find. In this case someone is accusing someone else of saying something so either they need to cede the point that it wasn't what was said or they can prove them wrong by finding where it was.
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 11:29 AM Post #908
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If we aren't missing parts of the discussion due to combining threads, then why does page one have us discussing the story after the charges are filed? We discussed this story at length prior to that, which is where you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that? I guess that's why I haven't given you much credibility in this discussion. Brum eventually made the met that SYG laws apply to TM first and then you latched onto that after many of your original biased accusations failed.

So you think that getting punched or getting your head slammed into the ground are life threatening but only when you wait long enough to get stitches or a concussion. Got it. I guess a broken nose doesn't count?
Absolutely not did I ever say Zimmerman hunted Martin down like a dog. However, there is someone in this thread who continues to claim that's what is being said. You.

Quote:
 
That being said however I have seen no evidence to indicate that Zimmerman has any major prejudice towards the black race. Certainly not enough to speculate that he hunted down a black teenager like a dog to kill him which has been stated by both the media and government officials.


Notice you refer to the media and government saying that. Certainly not me.

Here is the earliest I could find someone mentioning SYG applying to Trayvon Martin, and it's by Chops in the NBC doctoring audio thread.

Quote:
 
The interesting thing with that is Trayvon's girlfriend said he felt threatened by Zimmerman on the phone, and it's acknowledged that Zimmerman followed him. Ironically, shouldn't the 'Stand your Ground' law thus apply to Trayvon?


I am not ashamed to say that I listen to other people's opinions and take them into consideration when forming my own. You act like it's a bad thing. So if you want to say someone else mentioned SYG applying to Trayvon first and I followed in their path, I'm totally cool with that.

So here is what we have from your fantastic memory.
1) Me saying getting your head slammed into concrete isn't life threatening - false
2) Me saying Zimmerman hunted Martin like a dog - false (and ironically said by YOU)
3) Brum saying SYG applies to Martin and then me latching onto that - false

Sorry, but without any links I see no reason why anyone should simply take your word for what was said on this board. You make shit up about what people say and then refuse to back up your ridiculous claims. That is some real fucking bullshit, aaron.
Edited by dreachon, Jun 29 2013, 11:30 AM.
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BigBlueRampage Jun 29 2013, 11:31 AM Post #909
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Jun 28 2013, 06:00 PM
There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
Didn't GZ's original 911 call (the one NBC tried to doctor) have him saying that he didn't know what race the person (Martin) was?

Either way, I agree that racial profiling is wrong but it is not murder. You seem to be longing to get a man convicted of murder because he may or may not be profiling.....that's a huge leap.
I wanna see him get convicted of murder because he got out of his car to pursue a teenager that had skittles. His actions regardless of what happened after are the sole purpose for this kid getting shot.
And I disagree. If he wanted to murder the kid, there would have never been a scuffle. He could have just shot him, try and make up a story afterwards, and that would have been that. He went back to his car and was on phone with police before the two somehow crossed paths again. He did stop pursuing him, why do you guys keep leaving out the facts that we do know and jump to murder? That's not the way the system works, you have no idea what anyone's intentions were that night. Why do you insist on assuming that you do?
Because it was his actions that caused the whole thing to start. If Trevon wanted to kick his ass he could have turned around and did it from the start. Why do you want to get rid of the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin on foot an unarmed teenager on his way home from a convienience store with candy and drinks? If you would have done the same thing to me at that age I would have turned around and started a fight right there. I wouldn't have fled first and then doubled back to do damage(which is the only way this could be anything other than murder). In my opinion Zimmerman deserved the ass kicking he received for jumping to the conclusion that this teenager was up to no good from the get go and put himself into the position to get his ass kicked by pursuing in the first place.

Plus I thought he was "heading back" to his truck with the second altercation took place not at his truck not pursuing anymore. Plus I never said it was his Intention to shoot Martin but his actions directly led to the teen getting shot.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 11:37 AM Post #910
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Jun 29 2013, 11:21 AM
Either you can point to what you claim Dreachon said or you can't. It's really that simple. Let's not act like searching for something is difficult....some of the links we have posted took a lot of time to find. In this case someone is accusing someone else of saying something so either they need to cede the point that it wasn't what was said or they can prove them wrong by finding where it was.
The threads were combined....several of the first pages are gone. Aaron is not just making that up. It may not be here anymore but Dreach did imply those things. I read it myself. Flame on me or Aaron or anyone else if you want, but there is no reason to lie. I have no ill will towards Dreach, those are his opinions. It's fine if you want to put the burden of prof out there, the fact is certain things were said and implied and those posts aren't here anymore. Call me what you want but I will back Aaron on this one. I remember the discussion distinctly. Maybe dreachs word means more to you than mine, Aaron's, Lars, etc....and that is quite alright. I remember the posts Aaron is referring too....I don't know them word for word but Aaron isn't far off in his assessment of what was said. We've all drank beer and slept many nights since this started and maybe Dreach really doesn't remember his words....but he did imply exactly what Aaron is saying. I remember it quite well.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 11:42 AM Post #911
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Jun 29 2013, 11:31 AM
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Jun 29 2013, 06:37 AM
dreachon
Jun 28 2013, 06:00 PM
There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
Didn't GZ's original 911 call (the one NBC tried to doctor) have him saying that he didn't know what race the person (Martin) was?

Either way, I agree that racial profiling is wrong but it is not murder. You seem to be longing to get a man convicted of murder because he may or may not be profiling.....that's a huge leap.
I wanna see him get convicted of murder because he got out of his car to pursue a teenager that had skittles. His actions regardless of what happened after are the sole purpose for this kid getting shot.
And I disagree. If he wanted to murder the kid, there would have never been a scuffle. He could have just shot him, try and make up a story afterwards, and that would have been that. He went back to his car and was on phone with police before the two somehow crossed paths again. He did stop pursuing him, why do you guys keep leaving out the facts that we do know and jump to murder? That's not the way the system works, you have no idea what anyone's intentions were that night. Why do you insist on assuming that you do?
Because it was his actions that caused the whole thing to start. If Trevon wanted to kick his ass he could have turned around and did it from the start. Why do you want to get rid of the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin on foot an unarmed teenager on his way home from a convienience store with candy and drinks? If you would have done the same thing to me at that age I would have turned around and started a fight right there. I wouldn't have fled first and then doubled back to do damage(which is the only way this could be anything other than murder). In my opinion Zimmerman deserved the ass kicking he received for jumping to the conclusion that this teenager was up to no good from the get go and put himself into the position to get his ass kicked by pursuing in the first place.

Plus I thought he was "heading back" to his truck with the second altercation took place not at his truck not pursuing anymore. Plus I never said it was his Intention to shoot Martin but his actions directly led to the teen getting shot.
And some of tray ones actions lead to him being shot too.....it's a 2 way street. He could have just avoided the situation as well. I'm not saying Zimmerman did exactly what he should have done....but I don't think Martin did either. Zimmerman carrying a gun on watch is an issue that we can all debate....if he simply wanted to kill the kid it would have played out very differently.
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 11:43 AM Post #912
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Jun 29 2013, 11:37 AM
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Jun 29 2013, 11:21 AM
Either you can point to what you claim Dreachon said or you can't. It's really that simple. Let's not act like searching for something is difficult....some of the links we have posted took a lot of time to find. In this case someone is accusing someone else of saying something so either they need to cede the point that it wasn't what was said or they can prove them wrong by finding where it was.
The threads were combined....several of the first pages are gone. Aaron is not just making that up. It may not be here anymore but Dreach did imply those things. I read it myself. Flame on me or Aaron or anyone else if you want, but there is no reason to lie. I have no ill will towards Dreach, those are his opinions. It's fine if you want to put the burden of prof out there, the fact is certain things were said and implied and those posts aren't here anymore. Call me what you want but I will back Aaron on this one. I remember the discussion distinctly. Maybe dreachs word means more to you than mine, Aaron's, Lars, etc....and that is quite alright. I remember the posts Aaron is referring too....I don't know them word for word but Aaron isn't far off in his assessment of what was said. We've all drank beer and slept many nights since this started and maybe Dreach really doesn't remember his words....but he did imply exactly what Aaron is saying. I remember it quite well.
You know how I know it's bullshit? Because in the first pages of this topic, we wouldn't have had pictures of Zimmerman's head or known they were fighting on concrete. Hence, I wouldn't have been able to make the claim that getting you head bashed on concrete isn't life threatening.
Edited by dreachon, Jun 29 2013, 11:44 AM.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 11:45 AM Post #913
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dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 11:43 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Jun 29 2013, 11:37 AM
brumdog44
Jun 29 2013, 11:21 AM
Either you can point to what you claim Dreachon said or you can't. It's really that simple. Let's not act like searching for something is difficult....some of the links we have posted took a lot of time to find. In this case someone is accusing someone else of saying something so either they need to cede the point that it wasn't what was said or they can prove them wrong by finding where it was.
The threads were combined....several of the first pages are gone. Aaron is not just making that up. It may not be here anymore but Dreach did imply those things. I read it myself. Flame on me or Aaron or anyone else if you want, but there is no reason to lie. I have no ill will towards Dreach, those are his opinions. It's fine if you want to put the burden of prof out there, the fact is certain things were said and implied and those posts aren't here anymore. Call me what you want but I will back Aaron on this one. I remember the discussion distinctly. Maybe dreachs word means more to you than mine, Aaron's, Lars, etc....and that is quite alright. I remember the posts Aaron is referring too....I don't know them word for word but Aaron isn't far off in his assessment of what was said. We've all drank beer and slept many nights since this started and maybe Dreach really doesn't remember his words....but he did imply exactly what Aaron is saying. I remember it quite well.
You know how I know it's bullshit? Because in the first pages of this topic, we wouldn't have had pictures of Zimmerman's head or known they were fighting on concrete. Hence, I wouldn't have been able to make the claim that getting you head bashed on concrete isn't life threatening.
Whatever
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 11:52 AM Post #914
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Jun 29 2013, 11:45 AM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 11:43 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Jun 29 2013, 11:37 AM
brumdog44
Jun 29 2013, 11:21 AM
Either you can point to what you claim Dreachon said or you can't. It's really that simple. Let's not act like searching for something is difficult....some of the links we have posted took a lot of time to find. In this case someone is accusing someone else of saying something so either they need to cede the point that it wasn't what was said or they can prove them wrong by finding where it was.
The threads were combined....several of the first pages are gone. Aaron is not just making that up. It may not be here anymore but Dreach did imply those things. I read it myself. Flame on me or Aaron or anyone else if you want, but there is no reason to lie. I have no ill will towards Dreach, those are his opinions. It's fine if you want to put the burden of prof out there, the fact is certain things were said and implied and those posts aren't here anymore. Call me what you want but I will back Aaron on this one. I remember the discussion distinctly. Maybe dreachs word means more to you than mine, Aaron's, Lars, etc....and that is quite alright. I remember the posts Aaron is referring too....I don't know them word for word but Aaron isn't far off in his assessment of what was said. We've all drank beer and slept many nights since this started and maybe Dreach really doesn't remember his words....but he did imply exactly what Aaron is saying. I remember it quite well.
You know how I know it's bullshit? Because in the first pages of this topic, we wouldn't have had pictures of Zimmerman's head or known they were fighting on concrete. Hence, I wouldn't have been able to make the claim that getting you head bashed on concrete isn't life threatening.
Whatever
You know that my first posts on this topic were about Zimmerman needing to be in jail and then you and Aaron saying I was convicting him without any evidence and then me saying you were right and I shouldn't have jumped to conclusions. Yes? You remember all that? All of that is in the NBC Doctored Audio thread.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/topic/7177141/1/

It's all right there. Posts don't "disappear". This tactic by Aaron and now you backing him up is nothing short of pathetic.
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IUCOLTFAN Jun 29 2013, 12:04 PM Post #915
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Honestly Dreach, the more I think about it I just have to say this.....it really makes no difference to me. You have stated or implied on multiple occasions that your opinion was that no matter how bad he was being beaten that the injuries did no justify the shooting and you have every right to that opinion. Yet you never give any thought to the question of whether the beating would have gotten even more serious without the gunshot ending it. You are correct about one thing, if GZ would have just let Martin beat him into unconsciousness or death than Martin would have never been killed. But that didn't happen. We will never know how seriously threatened GZ may have felt inside his own mind....I'm not sure we will ever agree on that. All we can go by is what is playing out in court and, IMO, the states case is looking weaker by the day from a totally legal standpoint. It may not make you feel any better about what happened but, as many of us stated before and I believe you disagreed, the states case for murder is weak and it appears they overplayed their hand at least a little. Their "star witness" did their case no favors. If that is all they have then they overcharged and are gonna have to one up with a rabbit in their hat to get what they hope for. That doesn't mean I agree with anything Zimmerman did, it's just the reality of the situation. Cases shouldn't be tried on emotions, they should be decided with facts. IMO, the state doesn't have enough to get what they want. Maybe they still have a surprise for us, we will see.
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