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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,509 Views)
BigBlueRampage Jun 29 2013, 02:54 PM Post #931
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IUCOLTFAN
Jun 29 2013, 11:42 AM
BigBlueRampage
Jun 29 2013, 11:31 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Jun 29 2013, 11:05 AM
BigBlueRampage
Jun 29 2013, 10:47 AM
IUCOLTFAN
Jun 29 2013, 06:37 AM
dreachon
Jun 28 2013, 06:00 PM
There is evidence for racial profiling in this case when Zimmerman admitted that the neighborhood had been vandalized recently several times by black men. So part of him finding martin suspicious was that he was a black man.
Didn't GZ's original 911 call (the one NBC tried to doctor) have him saying that he didn't know what race the person (Martin) was?

Either way, I agree that racial profiling is wrong but it is not murder. You seem to be longing to get a man convicted of murder because he may or may not be profiling.....that's a huge leap.
I wanna see him get convicted of murder because he got out of his car to pursue a teenager that had skittles. His actions regardless of what happened after are the sole purpose for this kid getting shot.
And I disagree. If he wanted to murder the kid, there would have never been a scuffle. He could have just shot him, try and make up a story afterwards, and that would have been that. He went back to his car and was on phone with police before the two somehow crossed paths again. He did stop pursuing him, why do you guys keep leaving out the facts that we do know and jump to murder? That's not the way the system works, you have no idea what anyone's intentions were that night. Why do you insist on assuming that you do?
Because it was his actions that caused the whole thing to start. If Trevon wanted to kick his ass he could have turned around and did it from the start. Why do you want to get rid of the fact that Zimmerman got out of his vehicle and pursued Martin on foot an unarmed teenager on his way home from a convienience store with candy and drinks? If you would have done the same thing to me at that age I would have turned around and started a fight right there. I wouldn't have fled first and then doubled back to do damage(which is the only way this could be anything other than murder). In my opinion Zimmerman deserved the ass kicking he received for jumping to the conclusion that this teenager was up to no good from the get go and put himself into the position to get his ass kicked by pursuing in the first place.

Plus I thought he was "heading back" to his truck with the second altercation took place not at his truck not pursuing anymore. Plus I never said it was his Intention to shoot Martin but his actions directly led to the teen getting shot.
And some of tray ones actions lead to him being shot too.....it's a 2 way street. He could have just avoided the situation as well. I'm not saying Zimmerman did exactly what he should have done....but I don't think Martin did either. Zimmerman carrying a gun on watch is an issue that we can all debate....if he simply wanted to kill the kid it would have played out very differently.
Ok so I stop my truck call the cops. Take my loaded fire arm out of the truck to pursue a teenager that I didn't see do anything but look around the street while he was walking home. I then chase said teenager. Somehow the teen Punches me in my nose and uses force to "ground and pound" me. That is all we know we don't know how they ran back into each other.

Maybe it's just me but in situations like this I tend to side with the kid who got chased and ended up shot all because Zimmerman thought he was up to no good. When in reality he was returning home. None of this happens if he doesnt get out of his truck and pursue with a loaded gun. In my mind if this was your son who was gunned down on his way home with candy and drinks you would all be sounding way different. Martin in no way shape or form deserved to be shot I don't care if he did double back to beat the ass of the guy who was chasing him. As I have said Zimmerman in the case that I have seen deserved that ass beating. A broken nose seriously that's the proof for Zimmerman using deadly force?

The point that he got out of the truck and chased him with a loaded gun was the point that he LOST all of his SYG rights in my eyes.
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Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 03:28 PM Post #932
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brumdog44
Jun 29 2013, 01:56 PM
Shit or get off the pot -- either you can back up what you claim he said was true or not. It's that simple. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
No smoke no mirrors. I showed where dreach said GZs life wasn't in danger based upon his injuries. I assumed that he acknowledged that that GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed on the ground based upon the gash on the back of his head and the broken nose. So, if GZ was pinned down, getti g punched, and having his head slammed into the ground yet dreach doesn't feel his life was in danger, then my conclusion is that dreach doesn't feel that those types of beatings are life threatening. Apparently he meant that he didnt think that GZ was actually getting beat up like that, however as facts pointed to it being true, he adopted your theory that it doesn't matter because GZ waived his right to SYG.

Real simple.....if GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed, but you feel that isn't life threatening, then it's hard to draw another conclusion.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 04:51 PM Post #933
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Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 03:28 PM
brumdog44
Jun 29 2013, 01:56 PM
Shit or get off the pot -- either you can back up what you claim he said was true or not. It's that simple. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
No smoke no mirrors. I showed where dreach said GZs life wasn't in danger based upon his injuries. I assumed that he acknowledged that that GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed on the ground based upon the gash on the back of his head and the broken nose. So, if GZ was pinned down, getti g punched, and having his head slammed into the ground yet dreach doesn't feel his life was in danger, then my conclusion is that dreach doesn't feel that those types of beatings are life threatening. Apparently he meant that he didnt think that GZ was actually getting beat up like that, however as facts pointed to it being true, he adopted your theory that it doesn't matter because GZ waived his right to SYG.

Real simple.....if GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed, but you feel that isn't life threatening, then it's hard to draw another conclusion.
The only way you could have made this post is if you completely skipped everything else I have posted. But I will link for you one more time.

Several quotes from me saying I do not believe Zimmerman was having his head slammed into the concrete.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8301840&t=7184833

You
Quote:
 
I assumed that he acknowledged that that GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed on the ground based upon the gash on the back of his head and the broken nose. So, if GZ was pinned down, getti g punched, and having his head slammed into the ground yet dreach doesn't feel his life was in danger, then my conclusion is that dreach doesn't feel that those types of beatings are life threatening.


HUGE assumption

You
Quote:
 
Apparently he meant that he didnt think that GZ was actually getting beat up like that, however as facts pointed to it being true, he adopted your theory that it doesn't matter because GZ waived his right to SYG.

Incredibly off base. Not only do I still not believe facts have pointed to Zimmerman having his head slammed into the ground, but I adopted the theory that SYG should apply to Martin before that discussion even began. Here's a quote from me indicating I believe Martin had the right to defend himself before Zimmerman was even arrested, let alone any pictures of bloody head came out. This post is also before Brum or Chops make the argument that Martin had rights under SYG. So it seems like I was likely the original poster of this idea and not latching on to someone else's thoughts as you like to claim.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8248527&t=7177141

So here's our breakdown so far.
Gray lied about what I said
Gray lied about what I said
Gray claimed entire posts were deleted from the merge (false)
Gray completely ignores my posts calling him out for lying about what I said
Gray comes up with some revisionist history completely changing the order of events in a desperate attempt to back up his original, ridiculous claim
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Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 05:36 PM Post #934
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dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 04:51 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 03:28 PM
brumdog44
Jun 29 2013, 01:56 PM
Shit or get off the pot -- either you can back up what you claim he said was true or not. It's that simple. Everything else is just smoke and mirrors.
No smoke no mirrors. I showed where dreach said GZs life wasn't in danger based upon his injuries. I assumed that he acknowledged that that GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed on the ground based upon the gash on the back of his head and the broken nose. So, if GZ was pinned down, getti g punched, and having his head slammed into the ground yet dreach doesn't feel his life was in danger, then my conclusion is that dreach doesn't feel that those types of beatings are life threatening. Apparently he meant that he didnt think that GZ was actually getting beat up like that, however as facts pointed to it being true, he adopted your theory that it doesn't matter because GZ waived his right to SYG.

Real simple.....if GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed, but you feel that isn't life threatening, then it's hard to draw another conclusion.
The only way you could have made this post is if you completely skipped everything else I have posted. But I will link for you one more time.

Several quotes from me saying I do not believe Zimmerman was having his head slammed into the concrete.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8301840&t=7184833

You
Quote:
 
I assumed that he acknowledged that that GZ was getting punched and having his head slammed on the ground based upon the gash on the back of his head and the broken nose. So, if GZ was pinned down, getti g punched, and having his head slammed into the ground yet dreach doesn't feel his life was in danger, then my conclusion is that dreach doesn't feel that those types of beatings are life threatening.


HUGE assumption

You
Quote:
 
Apparently he meant that he didnt think that GZ was actually getting beat up like that, however as facts pointed to it being true, he adopted your theory that it doesn't matter because GZ waived his right to SYG.

Incredibly off base. Not only do I still not believe facts have pointed to Zimmerman having his head slammed into the ground, but I adopted the theory that SYG should apply to Martin before that discussion even began. Here's a quote from me indicating I believe Martin had the right to defend himself before Zimmerman was even arrested, let alone any pictures of bloody head came out. This post is also before Brum or Chops make the argument that Martin had rights under SYG. So it seems like I was likely the original poster of this idea and not latching on to someone else's thoughts as you like to claim.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8248527&t=7177141

So here's our breakdown so far.
Gray lied about what I said
Gray lied about what I said
Gray claimed entire posts were deleted from the merge (false)
Gray completely ignores my posts calling him out for lying about what I said
Gray comes up with some revisionist history completely changing the order of events in a desperate attempt to back up his original, ridiculous claim
Lol. I guess I never thought you would let your extreme bias cloud your grasp of reality so much. Apparently you did, so much so that you must think GZ broke his own nose, cut the back of his own head, and bought off the witness that saw TM beating the hell out of GZ.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM Post #935
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Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
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Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM Post #936
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dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jun 29 2013, 06:42 PM Post #937
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Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Link, apologize, or don't link and pretend and then attempt bait and switch. So far we seen the path you take.
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dreachon Jun 29 2013, 06:49 PM Post #938
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Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Ooooh, you were so close. So I actually didn't say either thing, I just implied it? Sure buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. I implied no such thing. Keep avoiding the question. Either back up your claims or admit you were wrong.

Now, let me address the racist comment. You are absolutely right. When I heard the audio from 911 call being reported that he said "fucking coons", I called him a racist and said it was obvious this was racially motivated. When you pointed out later reports that said it was actually him saying "fucking punks", I admitted I was wrong. Because that's what a man does. He admits when he's wrong and I have no problem doing such thing.

As for when is lethal force necessary, I have answered this question several times over. See this long back and forth from me and you on May 22nd. Amazing that your memory could be so accurate about what I said in the very first few posts on this topic which have now mysteriously been deleted, but you can't remember the conversation we had 1 month ago.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8299077&t=7184833
Edited by dreachon, Jun 29 2013, 06:50 PM.
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Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 09:39 PM Post #939
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Jun 29 2013, 06:42 PM
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Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Link, apologize, or don't link and pretend and then attempt bait and switch. So far we seen the path you take.
I have already linked everything for the above statement.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jun 29 2013, 09:47 PM Post #940
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Jun 29 2013, 06:49 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Ooooh, you were so close. So I actually didn't say either thing, I just implied it? Sure buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. I implied no such thing. Keep avoiding the question. Either back up your claims or admit you were wrong.

Now, let me address the racist comment. You are absolutely right. When I heard the audio from 911 call being reported that he said "fucking coons", I called him a racist and said it was obvious this was racially motivated. When you pointed out later reports that said it was actually him saying "fucking punks", I admitted I was wrong. Because that's what a man does. He admits when he's wrong and I have no problem doing such thing.

As for when is lethal force necessary, I have answered this question several times over. See this long back and forth from me and you on May 22nd. Amazing that your memory could be so accurate about what I said in the very first few posts on this topic which have now mysteriously been deleted, but you can't remember the conversation we had 1 month ago.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8299077&t=7184833
I remember that conversation vividly, but wanted to give you another chance, because it displays your inconsistency or hypocrisy on this topic.
Quote from you: I don't have a problem with the law, but I personally believe people should do everything they can to avoid having to use deadly force

You say that, but then contend that Martin has the rights under stand your ground laws??? Did he really do everything he could to avoid using deadly force (remember, you have now admitted that physical assaults such as punching or slamming heads is life threatening)

So you don't believe GZ should have used deadly force because based on his injuries, his life wasnt in danger, but Martin had the right because he was being chased. Wow.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jun 29 2013, 09:58 PM Post #941
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It really is sad that you can't own up to providing incorrect versions of what someone says. Pathetic, really.
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HoosierLars Jun 29 2013, 11:16 PM Post #942
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Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I don't remember the details, but think your overall take was GZ was getting his ass kicked but it wasn't potentially lethal. I never understood your logic. If someone is on top of me raining down blows to my head, how can that not be considered potentially lethal?

Looking at the facts that have come out in this case, I can see why the police initially decided not to charge GZ, and think this trial is a colossal waste of time and resources.
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obatskii Jun 29 2013, 11:17 PM Post #943
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Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I don't remember the details, but think your overall take was GZ was getting his ass kicked but it wasn't potentially lethal. I never understood your logic. If someone is on top of me raining down blows to my head, how can that not be considered potentially lethal?

Looking at the facts that have come out in this case, I can see why the police initially decided not to charge GZ, and think this trial is a colossal waste of time and resources.
Free George!!!
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HoosierLars Jun 29 2013, 11:23 PM Post #944
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Jun 29 2013, 11:17 PM
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Jun 28 2013, 08:11 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 06:33 PM
I'll try to clarify again. Yes or no, if someone is on top of someone else punching and or slamming their head into the ground, is the person on bottom's life potentially in danger?
Sorry aaron, but I'm not going to let you conveniently get out of this one. You said I said something. Back it up. I'll answer your question after you either find the link where I said having your head slammed into concrete isn't potentially fatal, or admit that you just made that shit up.
Dreach, I don't remember the details, but think your overall take was GZ was getting his ass kicked but it wasn't potentially lethal. I never understood your logic. If someone is on top of me raining down blows to my head, how can that not be considered potentially lethal?

Looking at the facts that have come out in this case, I can see why the police initially decided not to charge GZ, and think this trial is a colossal waste of time and resources.
Free George!!!
He will be freed, and then it will be a crying shame if riots break out. The political and Hollywood elites will deserve much of the blame. Recall that initially NBC edited the 911 audio tapes to make GZ sound like a racist. Then various folks poured more gas on the flames.
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dreachon Jun 30 2013, 07:10 AM Post #945
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Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 09:47 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 06:49 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 29 2013, 06:21 PM
dreachon
Jun 29 2013, 05:55 PM
Your accusations of me.

Quote:
 
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.

Quote:
 
you stated something to the effect of GZ being racist and hunting down the black kid like a dog. Remember that?


Back it up or grow a pair and admit you were wrong. It's real simple.
You didn't say "hunt like a dog" but you did convict GZ right away and make Reference to him being racist. If yiu didn't explicitly say that getting your head slammed isn't life endangering, then you implied it at a minimum dreach. Colt and I remember it the same way. There is a reason that you won't clarify and answer my questions. Because your claims aren't consistent with your stance and your bias shines through.

When is lethal force or "standing your ground" acceptable?
Ooooh, you were so close. So I actually didn't say either thing, I just implied it? Sure buddy. Whatever makes you feel better. I implied no such thing. Keep avoiding the question. Either back up your claims or admit you were wrong.

Now, let me address the racist comment. You are absolutely right. When I heard the audio from 911 call being reported that he said "fucking coons", I called him a racist and said it was obvious this was racially motivated. When you pointed out later reports that said it was actually him saying "fucking punks", I admitted I was wrong. Because that's what a man does. He admits when he's wrong and I have no problem doing such thing.

As for when is lethal force necessary, I have answered this question several times over. See this long back and forth from me and you on May 22nd. Amazing that your memory could be so accurate about what I said in the very first few posts on this topic which have now mysteriously been deleted, but you can't remember the conversation we had 1 month ago.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8299077&t=7184833
I remember that conversation vividly, but wanted to give you another chance, because it displays your inconsistency or hypocrisy on this topic.
Quote from you: I don't have a problem with the law, but I personally believe people should do everything they can to avoid having to use deadly force

You say that, but then contend that Martin has the rights under stand your ground laws??? Did he really do everything he could to avoid using deadly force (remember, you have now admitted that physical assaults such as punching or slamming heads is life threatening)

So you don't believe GZ should have used deadly force because based on his injuries, his life wasnt in danger, but Martin had the right because he was being chased. Wow.
Soooo, you can't prove what you claim I said? Ok.

Why does my personal belief have to agree with the law? According to the SYG law, I believe Trayvon Martin had the right to defend himself with deadly force. Personally, I would never use deadly force unless I felt my life was in imminent danger. No, Martin didn't do everything he possibly could to avoid fighting with Zimmerman, but the law says he can stand his ground and he did.

Yes, I have said that punching someone can be lethal, however, if you actually read my post you would see that I also said it is an incredibly rare instance when someone dies from a punch. Because of that, legally, a punch is not considered to be using deadly force. If it was, then anyone who has ever been sued for punching someone would be brought up on attempted murder charges, not assault. When you combine this fact that I don't think Martin was slamming Zimmerman's head into the sidewalk, then it actually turns out that Martin did not use deadly force in his self-defense.
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