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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,505 Views)
yawnzzz Jul 1 2013, 11:08 AM Post #991
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dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 01:27 AM
Yawnz, Brum is right. You're quote is from 776.013, which is in regard to Home Protection.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

776.012 reads
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;
776.013 is typically what's referred to as the 'Stand Your Ground' statute. It does not just cover home protection. It's the same statute you'll find across many states.
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dreachon Jul 1 2013, 11:13 AM Post #992
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yawnzzz
Jul 1 2013, 11:08 AM
dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 01:27 AM
Yawnz, Brum is right. You're quote is from 776.013, which is in regard to Home Protection.
776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.—

776.012 reads
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;
776.013 is typically what's referred to as the 'Stand Your Ground' statute. It does not just cover home protection. It's the same statute you'll find across many states.
I mean I don't read every state's statutes so I'll take your word for it. I just know it says for "home protection" under .013 and under .012 it says for "defense of person". Just seems to me that this case falls under .012 more than .013. If .012 isn't officially a SYG law, so be it.
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HoosierLars Jul 1 2013, 12:54 PM Post #993
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dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 10:14 AM
"that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force."

It doesn't say anything about committing a crime. Zimmerman followed Martin in his car. Got out of his car, at night, in the rain, and chased after Martin. When he encountered Martin he didn't identify himself. He didn't say the police were on the way. What could Martin possibly have thought Zimmerman was doing? Coming in for a big hug? Zimmerman's actions were enough for Martin to reasonably believe Zimmerman meant him harm.
I agree with Colt on this one, and don't think GZ's actions should have led to TM kicking his ass.

Over the weekend I heard that GZ led an effort to punish the police for beating a homeless black man, which led to the dismissal/resignation of someone. (sorry, didn't catch the details on the radio)
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dreachon Jul 1 2013, 01:24 PM Post #994
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HoosierLars
Jul 1 2013, 12:54 PM
dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 10:14 AM
"that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force."

It doesn't say anything about committing a crime. Zimmerman followed Martin in his car. Got out of his car, at night, in the rain, and chased after Martin. When he encountered Martin he didn't identify himself. He didn't say the police were on the way. What could Martin possibly have thought Zimmerman was doing? Coming in for a big hug? Zimmerman's actions were enough for Martin to reasonably believe Zimmerman meant him harm.
I agree with Colt on this one, and don't think GZ's actions should have led to TM kicking his ass.
That's fine. I hope you at least understand my position now.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 1 2013, 01:33 PM Post #995
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Officer just testified that Zimmerman didn't appear to be angry or have "Ill will" towards Martin. After learning Martin was dead, Zimmerman very remorseful for having killed another person.

Interesting bit of info....wonder how that plays with the jury.
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dreachon Jul 1 2013, 01:45 PM Post #996
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 1 2013, 01:33 PM
Officer just testified that Zimmerman didn't appear to be angry or have "Ill will" towards Martin. After learning Martin was dead, Zimmerman very remorseful for having killed another person.

Interesting bit of info....wonder how that plays with the jury.
Can't imagine it would play anything other than well, right?
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HoosierLars Jul 1 2013, 02:03 PM Post #997
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dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 01:24 PM
HoosierLars
Jul 1 2013, 12:54 PM
dreachon
Jul 1 2013, 10:14 AM
"that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force."

It doesn't say anything about committing a crime. Zimmerman followed Martin in his car. Got out of his car, at night, in the rain, and chased after Martin. When he encountered Martin he didn't identify himself. He didn't say the police were on the way. What could Martin possibly have thought Zimmerman was doing? Coming in for a big hug? Zimmerman's actions were enough for Martin to reasonably believe Zimmerman meant him harm.
I agree with Colt on this one, and don't think GZ's actions should have led to TM kicking his ass.
That's fine. I hope you at least understand my position now.
Yep, thanks for taking the time to discuss it.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 1 2013, 06:37 PM Post #998
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When asked if he felt GZ was telling the truth, the lead investigator testified "yes"
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mongo Jul 1 2013, 06:50 PM Post #999
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I mean it obviously helps even more in a case that appears to be going Zimmermans way.
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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dut1101 Jul 2 2013, 10:55 AM Post #1000
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Judge throws out lead detectives comments on credibility that zimmerman meant no ill will towards TM... judge says one witness can't speak on the credibility of another witness... hmm
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dreachon Jul 2 2013, 02:22 PM Post #1001
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dut1101
Jun 26 2013, 09:50 AM

If you haven't seen the related video in the background here it is....

WARNING!!! This is hard to watch...

[utube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvvHMM6TF50[/utube]
That fucker has been caught. headbang2
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2351447/Shawn-Custis-Police-catch-home-invader-vicious-attack-mother-child-caught-nanny-cam.html
Edited by dreachon, Jul 2 2013, 02:22 PM.
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Mr Gray Jul 2 2013, 02:36 PM Post #1002
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dreach, I was finally able to get in front of an actual computer (instead of my phone) to find your post(s) that lead me to my thinking and statement. Here you go.

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8299064&t=7184833
Quote:
 
The entire point of my post is that in order to have the right to kill someone, your life needs to be in imminent danger


http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8253122&t=7184833
Quote:
 
The only scenario I can see that condemns Martin is the same one as Zimmerman's story. If Zimmerman was walking back to his truck or waiting at his truck and Martin ambushed him, then I think Zimmerman's right to defend himself has been restored


http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8251830&t=7184833
Quote:
 
If Zimmerman headed back and was waiting by his car as Martin approaches him and then attacks him then it certainly muddies the waters for me.......On the 3rd hand, I'm not sure if he was ever in a situation where he felt his life was in danger and was forced to kill Martin


So dreach, here is a summary of direct quotes from you that lead to the conclusion that I previous stated, which you deny.

1) You don't believe someone has a right to kill someone unless their own life is in imminent danger.
2) If GZ's story is true (that TM doubled back, began pummeling GZ and slamming his head into the ground), then GZ's right to defend himself is restored, however you aren't sure that he was ever in a situation where his life was in danger

1+2. So, if GZ's story is true and he was getting pummelled/head slammed into ground, but you still don't feel that he had a right to kill or that his life was in danger, I think I can safely stick to my original statement that you don't feel this type of beating (claimed by GZ) is life threatening.

What were you saying earlier about "manning up"?
Edited by Mr Gray, Jul 2 2013, 02:37 PM.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 2 2013, 03:11 PM Post #1003
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Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 01:12 PM
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
So the above is explained by your statement above HOW?

Dreach didn't say a single damn thing about someone getting their head slammed into the ground. He said he wasn't certain that Zimmerman's life was ever in danger.....this is getting beyond pathetic.
Edited by brumdog44, Jul 2 2013, 03:18 PM.
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dreachon Jul 2 2013, 03:12 PM Post #1004
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Mr Gray
Jul 2 2013, 02:36 PM

What were you saying earlier about "manning up"?
:facepalm:

So you can't find any quotes from me saying getting your head bashed into the sidewalk is life threatening or that Zimmerman chased down Martin like a dog? Were you able to search all the "mysteriously deleted" posts on your desktop? Got it.

And again, for the 1000th time, I don't believe Zimmerman was getting his head slammed into the ground. I have said this time and time and time again.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8251085&t=7184833

By saying "if ZImmerman's story is true", I'm obviously talking about his version of Martin doubling back and attacking him unprovoked. When I say, "I'm not sure he was ever in a situation where his life was in danger" it's because I don't believe him when he says his head was getting slammed into the ground. Hence the "I'm not sure". Here's another quote from me.

Quote:
 
Let's not get into the "fatal violence" discussion. We're never going to agree on that. I don't think Zimmerman's injuries were life threatening in any way. You think they were significant enough for Zimmerman to shoot Martin. Let's just leave it at that.


And here
Quote:
 
I believe deadly force should only be used when it is absolutely necessary. A "him or me" type of situation. I just don't see that here. Yeah, Zimmerman may have gotten his butt whooped, but it wasn't bad enough to give him a concussion, stitches, or even a basic medical evaluation as he refused treatment. I don't think getting yer clock cleaned is reason enough to shoot and kill someone. I need to know that Zimmerman did everything in his power to NOT shoot Trayvon Martin. That is responsible gun ownership to me.


And here
Quote:
 
I think if Zimmerman's story is true than he obviously wouldn't get convicted of 2nd degree murder and he really shouldn't. I'm still not convinced that deadly force was necessary and so I do think he'd still be convicted of some lesser charges. Not sure what those would be whether it's something like manslaughter or negligence or something.


And here - where I acknowledge that maybe Zimmerman really did feel like his life was in danger
Quote:
 
It's possible, but I've been a fight before. I didn't think I was going to DIE. I feel like there is a very distinct point when you believe the person you are fighting will kill you. The injuries inflicted just don't seem serious enough to come to that conclusion. I mean did Zimmerman really do EVERYTHING he could to avoid shooting Martin? He didn't identify himself? He didn't give any warning? He didn't try to run away? I mean admittedly it wasn't me there so I'm merely speculating. Maybe Zimmerman really felt like his life was in imminent danger. I don't know. I just don't see it though.


I have been incredibly consistent throughout. I don't believe Zimmerman was sustaining so much punishment that he would have felt his life was in danger. COULD he have died from a punch? Yes.But that situation is so incredibly rare that no one thinks they are going to die from a punch. Getting into a fistfight is not a good enough reason to shoot and kill someone. Especially, as I believe, when you are the instigator of said fight.
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dreachon Jul 2 2013, 03:15 PM Post #1005
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brumdog44
Jul 2 2013, 03:11 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 28 2013, 01:12 PM
dreach has explained that getting your head slammed into the ground isn't life threatening.
So the above is explained by your statement above HOW?
Don't you see Brum?!?! If I take parts of quotes from various posts and attempt to thread them together to reach an entirely different conclusion then my quote about what Dreach said is 100% accurate!
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