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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,502 Views)
dreachon Jul 2 2013, 05:57 PM Post #1036
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dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
You mean this testimony?

Quote:
 
Perhaps the biggest contradiction is Zimmerman’s claim that he was repeatedly beaten by Martin. Zimmerman has said his head was struck against the concrete sidewalk by Martin who rained a series of blows — more than two dozen in one account — on the volunteer.

Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story
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dut1101 Jul 2 2013, 06:05 PM Post #1037
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dreachon
Jul 2 2013, 05:57 PM
dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
You mean this testimony?

Quote:
 
Perhaps the biggest contradiction is Zimmerman’s claim that he was repeatedly beaten by Martin. Zimmerman has said his head was struck against the concrete sidewalk by Martin who rained a series of blows — more than two dozen in one account — on the volunteer.

Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story
Yes but there needs to be reasonable doubt GZ had ill will with the 2nd degree murder... I'm keeping an open mind throughout but IMO I don't a conviction on that happening but what do I know
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brumdog44 Jul 2 2013, 06:14 PM Post #1038
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dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
Caylee Anthony is at home right now. The actual trial doesn't interest me.
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HoosierLars Jul 2 2013, 06:14 PM Post #1039
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Mr Gray
Jul 2 2013, 05:03 PM
This is where your bias creates a pretty big inconsistency. In your own words in the last 2 hours, you don't believe GZ had a right to use deadly force if TM doubled back and co fronted him unless his entire scenario were true where his head was getting slammed. Then in the same conversation you claim that TM did have the right to use deadly force when being followed and confronted.
ding ding ding
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dreachon Jul 2 2013, 07:09 PM Post #1040
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Jul 2 2013, 06:14 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 2 2013, 05:03 PM
This is where your bias creates a pretty big inconsistency. In your own words in the last 2 hours, you don't believe GZ had a right to use deadly force if TM doubled back and co fronted him unless his entire scenario were true where his head was getting slammed. Then in the same conversation you claim that TM did have the right to use deadly force when being followed and confronted.
ding ding ding
Sigh

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8302193&t=7184833
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dreachon Jul 2 2013, 07:10 PM Post #1041
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dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 06:05 PM
dreachon
Jul 2 2013, 05:57 PM
dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
You mean this testimony?

Quote:
 
Perhaps the biggest contradiction is Zimmerman’s claim that he was repeatedly beaten by Martin. Zimmerman has said his head was struck against the concrete sidewalk by Martin who rained a series of blows — more than two dozen in one account — on the volunteer.

Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story
Yes but there needs to be reasonable doubt GZ had ill will with the 2nd degree murder... I'm keeping an open mind throughout but IMO I don't a conviction on that happening but what do I know
Oh I totally think he doesn't get convicted. I'm with you there.
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BigBlueRampage Jul 2 2013, 07:31 PM Post #1042
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dreachon
Jul 2 2013, 07:10 PM
dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 06:05 PM
dreachon
Jul 2 2013, 05:57 PM
dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
You mean this testimony?

Quote:
 
Perhaps the biggest contradiction is Zimmerman’s claim that he was repeatedly beaten by Martin. Zimmerman has said his head was struck against the concrete sidewalk by Martin who rained a series of blows — more than two dozen in one account — on the volunteer.

Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story
Yes but there needs to be reasonable doubt GZ had ill will with the 2nd degree murder... I'm keeping an open mind throughout but IMO I don't a conviction on that happening but what do I know
Oh I totally think he doesn't get convicted. I'm with you there.
Ok here's my opinion which of course doesn't matter. I view GZ as a vigilante dude got out of his car with a loaded weapon to chase someone he thought was "up to no good". In my mind that crosses the line of a Neighborhood watch, who from what I have read are not supposed to carry weapons at all.

Zimmerman Neighborhood watch

See above the rules for the neighborhood watch in his gated community were to stand aside and not follow so the police can do their job(also if he did that this whole situation would have been avoided). He violated his own neighborhood watch rules by following.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 2 2013, 09:31 PM Post #1043
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dreachon
Jul 2 2013, 05:57 PM
dut1101
Jul 2 2013, 05:54 PM
Seriously why don't you guys follow the trial instead of arguing about what eachother said in the past... Obviously the trial is evolving and more information and PROFESSIONAlL opinion is coming to light... Medical examiner testifies GZs injuries to the back of his head are consistent with only being slammed to the ground once... The only thing debatable in this entire thing is if its worth a 2nd degree murder charge or not
You mean this testimony?

Quote:
 
Perhaps the biggest contradiction is Zimmerman’s claim that he was repeatedly beaten by Martin. Zimmerman has said his head was struck against the concrete sidewalk by Martin who rained a series of blows — more than two dozen in one account — on the volunteer.

Photographs show that Zimmerman had a bloody nose and two lacerations to the back of his head — wounds that the prosecution has insisted are too minor to have come from a severe attack by Martin.

Dr. Valerie Rao, the Jacksonville, Fla., medical examiner for Duval, Clay and Nassau counties, testified that she reviewed Zimmerman’s photographs and medical records. She was not involved in the autopsy of Martin.

The wounds displayed on Zimmerman’s head and face were “consistent with one strike, two injuries at one time,” she testified. “The injuries were not life-threatening,” she said, adding they were “very insignificant.”


http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-medical-examiner-20130702,0,1358679.story
A bloody nose? Is this the expert that made her analysis from photos?
So she can see from the photos that the head wounds were not life threatening but she can't see that that is a little more than a "bloody nose"?
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dreachon Jul 5 2013, 02:18 PM Post #1044
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So an interesting day today with the medical examiner confirming no injuries or Zimmerman DNA on Martin's hands. Also, the abrasions on Martins knuckles are on his left hand and he was right handed. I think if someone would sucker punch another person, they would use their dominant hand.

So I'm trying to figure out how Martin could have repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground without getting any of Zimmerman's DNA on him. Since Zimmerman was bald, one would have to figure that Martin would have needed to use both hands to grab and slam Zimmerman's head, yes?
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dreachon Jul 5 2013, 02:34 PM Post #1045
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Jul 5 2013, 02:18 PM
So an interesting day today with the medical examiner confirming no injuries or Zimmerman DNA on Martin's hands. Also, the abrasions on Martins knuckles are on his left hand and he was right handed. I think if someone would sucker punch another person, they would use their dominant hand.

So I'm trying to figure out how Martin could have repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground without getting any of Zimmerman's DNA on him. Since Zimmerman was bald, one would have to figure that Martin would have needed to use both hands to grab and slam Zimmerman's head, yes?
Side note, if not while slamming Zimmerman's head, Martin's hand would HAVE to have gotten DNA on it when Zimmerman said that Martin put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth to shut him up, right?
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HoosierLars Jul 5 2013, 04:33 PM Post #1046
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dreachon
Jul 5 2013, 02:34 PM
dreachon
Jul 5 2013, 02:18 PM
So an interesting day today with the medical examiner confirming no injuries or Zimmerman DNA on Martin's hands. Also, the abrasions on Martins knuckles are on his left hand and he was right handed. I think if someone would sucker punch another person, they would use their dominant hand.

So I'm trying to figure out how Martin could have repeatedly slammed Zimmerman's head into the ground without getting any of Zimmerman's DNA on him. Since Zimmerman was bald, one would have to figure that Martin would have needed to use both hands to grab and slam Zimmerman's head, yes?
Side note, if not while slamming Zimmerman's head, Martin's hand would HAVE to have gotten DNA on it when Zimmerman said that Martin put his hand over Zimmerman's mouth to shut him up, right?
I would think so. Seems like good evidence for the prosecution.
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dreachon Jul 5 2013, 08:37 PM Post #1047
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Other inconsistencies that don't prove the case one way or another, but just don't sit well with me.

There appear to be no areas at the scene with which to hide and ambush someone, as Zimmerman claimed.

If Martin is sitting on Zimmerman MMA style, then that would mean his crotch and legs are above Zimmerman's hips. So then the gun Zimmerman had on him would be behind Martin. How did he see it? and subsequently try to go for it?

The baldness of Zimmerman really gets me because in addition to being bald, it was raining out. I just don't see how Martin could be grabbing Zimmerman's head and slamming to the ground without either digging his hands into Zimmerman's face or grabbing his ears. Zimmerman never said anything about his ears being grabbed and there were no injuries to his ears. And I'm not even sure that would work anyways. Might just have ripped his ears off.

And if he is grabbing Zimmerman's head with both hands than he's obviously not still punching him. Zimmerman had 50 pounds on the kid. He really couldn't buck Martin off of him?

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Mr Gray Jul 6 2013, 12:21 AM Post #1048
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Jul 5 2013, 08:37 PM
Other inconsistencies that don't prove the case one way or another, but just don't sit well with me.

There appear to be no areas at the scene with which to hide and ambush someone, as Zimmerman claimed.

If Martin is sitting on Zimmerman MMA style, then that would mean his crotch and legs are above Zimmerman's hips. So then the gun Zimmerman had on him would be behind Martin. How did he see it? and subsequently try to go for it?

The baldness of Zimmerman really gets me because in addition to being bald, it was raining out. I just don't see how Martin could be grabbing Zimmerman's head and slamming to the ground without either digging his hands into Zimmerman's face or grabbing his ears. Zimmerman never said anything about his ears being grabbed and there were no injuries to his ears. And I'm not even sure that would work anyways. Might just have ripped his ears off.

And if he is grabbing Zimmerman's head with both hands than he's obviously not still punching him. Zimmerman had 50 pounds on the kid. He really couldn't buck Martin off of him?

Real life DNA transfer isn't like CSI TV. Punching someone wouldn't necessarily transfer, and the rain would also be a factor. Regarding slamming his head, I would assume he just grabbed his head like a basketball, which wouldn't transfer DNA and wouldn't require digging his nails into his scalp.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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MsJazen Jul 6 2013, 11:08 PM Post #1049
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Jun 29 2013, 01:37 PM
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Jun 26 2013, 03:30 PM
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Jun 26 2013, 01:48 PM
I thought the prosecutor's opening statement was pretty strong and sums up what the case is really about:

[utube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tttdPpZx3EY[/utube]

The opening starts at 20:30.
A few things mentioned in there that are new or haven't been discussed yet on here.

1) The darkness of the alley.
2) The prosecution says that there was too little time between Zimmerman's phone call and the shooting for anything significant to take place, but then says Martin and Zimmerman had a heated exchange that lasted much longer than Zimmerman says. Not sure how that's really possible unless we're talking about the difference between 10 and 30 seconds.
3) The 2nd 911 call recorded by a neighbor
4) The fighting lessons.
5) No DNA of Zimmerman on Martin's fingernails or hands.

A lot of interesting things here, but I still see nothing that's concrete enough to lead me away from the belief that the entire case hinges on Martin's girlfriend's testimony and believability.
for me, I'm not sure that the girlfriend's testimony matters much at all. Her word against Zimmerman's, both obviously biased. The lack of DNA on the hands or fingernails means a lot to me though...curious what the defense's response is to that. Wouldn't he have GZ DNA all over him if he was beating his ass?
I hear what you're saying, but the girlfriend's testimony is the ONLY one on the defense's side that can contradict Zimmerman and say he continued to pursue Martin. It may be Zimmerman's word vs the girlfriend, but without her it's Zimmerman's word vs no one. A big diff, IMO.

EDIT: Prosecution's
I don't know why people would question the girlfriend's testimony. She does not have a reason in the world to lie. GZ does. If he is guilty and he lies (and the jury believes him), he can avoid prison. Plus, he is already a proven liar. In court.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-credibility-issue-legal-case-bond-revoked-article-1.1088745
Here you go Ms Jaz

"I don't know why people would question the girlfriend's testimony. She does not have a reason in the world to lie."

Now, are you going to claim that you weren't implying that she was an honest witness?
Ok, since you couldn't be bothered with posting the link to my post, I will do it for you. The one where your quote is from:

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8301571&t=7184833

and my next post:

http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8301574&t=7184833

I will direct your attention to a few lines from my second post:

Quote:
 
Still, I don't see her having any reason at all to lie about what she heard on the phone that night, right before TM was killed. Do you think she has some kind of psychotic wish to frame GZ, a man she has never met?


So, no, I was not implying that she is an honest witness. I said that she has no reason to lie about what she heard that night. Those are 2 different things.

Sorry to bring up old news, I have been busy and not able to follow this case or the thread very close. I just didn't want it to seem as if I was ignoring you.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 7 2013, 06:48 AM Post #1050
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Not acknowledging reverse racism is pretty naive.....
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