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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,500 Views)
dreachon Jul 8 2013, 01:33 PM Post #1066
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
I completely said "whether we BELIEVE he is guilty". So I'm obviously talking about what I feel are my personal views and no, that doesn't mean anything in the real world. Do you feel OJ or Casey Anthony were actually guilty?

Find me a link where I said Murder 2 was an appropriate charge. I believe what I actually said was that I had no idea what it would take to get a murder 2 conviction and that I think the jury could find him guilty of a lesser charge, So, yes, I have felt that way all along. Yes, I do think he should be convicted of something.

And my issue is not about guns. I have said repeatedly on here that I am not in favor of banning guns, and am instead in favor of mandatory classes that force people who want a gun to learn how to actually use them, store them, clean them, etc.
Edited by dreachon, Jul 8 2013, 01:39 PM.
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HoosierLars Jul 8 2013, 01:37 PM Post #1067
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner.
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brumdog44 Jul 8 2013, 02:24 PM Post #1068
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Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
dreachon
Jul 8 2013, 08:41 AM
I think most of us agree that Zimmerman will not be found guilty of murder. At this point we're merely discussing whether we believe he's actually guilty, not whether he will be found guilty. As for this part:

Quote:
 
and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant.”


Obviously we're not in agreement that Zimmerman did that.
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
Dreach and myself have both indicated we don't think he will be found guilty. I'm more interested in the non-legal ethical question of guilt.
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Mr Gray Jul 8 2013, 02:48 PM Post #1069
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brumdog44
Jul 8 2013, 02:24 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
dreachon
Jul 8 2013, 08:41 AM
I think most of us agree that Zimmerman will not be found guilty of murder. At this point we're merely discussing whether we believe he's actually guilty, not whether he will be found guilty. As for this part:

Quote:
 
and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant.”


Obviously we're not in agreement that Zimmerman did that.
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
Dreach and myself have both indicated we don't think he will be found guilty. I'm more interested in the non-legal ethical question of guilt.
doesn't that really come down to what happened that instigated the physical confrontation?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 8 2013, 03:29 PM Post #1070
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Mr Gray
Jul 8 2013, 02:48 PM
brumdog44
Jul 8 2013, 02:24 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
dreachon
Jul 8 2013, 08:41 AM
I think most of us agree that Zimmerman will not be found guilty of murder. At this point we're merely discussing whether we believe he's actually guilty, not whether he will be found guilty. As for this part:

Quote:
 
and that he or she has exhausted every reasonable means to escape such danger other than the use of force which is likely to cause death or great bodily harm to the assailant.”


Obviously we're not in agreement that Zimmerman did that.
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
Dreach and myself have both indicated we don't think he will be found guilty. I'm more interested in the non-legal ethical question of guilt.
doesn't that really come down to what happened that instigated the physical confrontation?
Do you believe that there are situations where the initial physical contact was ethically justifiable?
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 8 2013, 03:31 PM Post #1071
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dreachon
Jul 8 2013, 01:33 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
I completely said "whether we BELIEVE he is guilty". So I'm obviously talking about what I feel are my personal views and no, that doesn't mean anything in the real world. Do you feel OJ or Casey Anthony were actually guilty?

Find me a link where I said Murder 2 was an appropriate charge. I believe what I actually said was that I had no idea what it would take to get a murder 2 conviction and that I think the jury could find him guilty of a lesser charge, So, yes, I have felt that way all along. Yes, I do think he should be convicted of something.

And my issue is not about guns. I have said repeatedly on here that I am not in favor of banning guns, and am instead in favor of mandatory classes that force people who want a gun to learn how to actually use them, store them, clean them, etc.
I don't think this case is anything like the OJ or Anthony trials.....
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dreachon Jul 8 2013, 03:35 PM Post #1072
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 03:31 PM
dreachon
Jul 8 2013, 01:33 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
I completely said "whether we BELIEVE he is guilty". So I'm obviously talking about what I feel are my personal views and no, that doesn't mean anything in the real world. Do you feel OJ or Casey Anthony were actually guilty?

Find me a link where I said Murder 2 was an appropriate charge. I believe what I actually said was that I had no idea what it would take to get a murder 2 conviction and that I think the jury could find him guilty of a lesser charge, So, yes, I have felt that way all along. Yes, I do think he should be convicted of something.

And my issue is not about guns. I have said repeatedly on here that I am not in favor of banning guns, and am instead in favor of mandatory classes that force people who want a gun to learn how to actually use them, store them, clean them, etc.
I don't think this case is anything like the OJ or Anthony trials.....
That wasn't the question.
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eelbor Jul 8 2013, 03:35 PM Post #1073
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 8 2013, 01:26 PM
How is he guilty if the law finds him not guilty? You may feel he is "guilty" of something from your personal views but that really doesn't mean anything. It's pretty safe to say that those who want more gun restrictions jumped on one side of this case initially. Your issues are more about guns, IMO. A few of us said from the beginning that the state overcharged.....just because you now agree that he probably won't be convicted that doesn't mean you felt that way all along. You've wanted him convicted of something, no?
Lots of guilty people walk.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 8 2013, 09:55 PM Post #1074
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Sounds like the judge allowed the evidence that TM had marijuana in his system, and some expert testified that it was enough to alter his behavior that night. Not a huge deal, but certainly doesn't help the prosecution.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 8 2013, 10:06 PM Post #1075
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Mr Gray
Jul 8 2013, 09:55 PM
Sounds like the judge allowed the evidence that TM had marijuana in his system, and some expert testified that it was enough to alter his behavior that night. Not a huge deal, but certainly doesn't help the prosecution.
The prosecution has rested, right? (I'm not following the trial closely other than what has been said here). How long is the defense expected to present their case?
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Mr Gray Jul 8 2013, 10:12 PM Post #1076
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brumdog44
Jul 8 2013, 10:06 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 8 2013, 09:55 PM
Sounds like the judge allowed the evidence that TM had marijuana in his system, and some expert testified that it was enough to alter his behavior that night. Not a huge deal, but certainly doesn't help the prosecution.
The prosecution has rested, right? (I'm not following the trial closely other than what has been said here). How long is the defense expected to present their case?
I heard that they are expecting a verdict this week, so I'm guessing they will rest on Thursday.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 8 2013, 11:09 PM Post #1077
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Mr Gray
Jul 8 2013, 10:12 PM
brumdog44
Jul 8 2013, 10:06 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 8 2013, 09:55 PM
Sounds like the judge allowed the evidence that TM had marijuana in his system, and some expert testified that it was enough to alter his behavior that night. Not a huge deal, but certainly doesn't help the prosecution.
The prosecution has rested, right? (I'm not following the trial closely other than what has been said here). How long is the defense expected to present their case?
I heard that they are expecting a verdict this week, so I'm guessing they will rest on Thursday.
I would assume that they would have to rest on Thursday to get a Friday verdict.
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Mr Gray Jul 9 2013, 01:19 PM Post #1078
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/

A nationally renowned gunshot wound expert testified Tuesday that Trayvon Martin's gunshot wound was consistent with accused murderer George Zimmerman's story that the teen was on top of him and leaning over when he was shot.

Prosecutors have said that George Zimmerman told investigators he moved Martin's arms away from his body after the gunshot, although Martin was found with his arms tucked beneath his chest. Answering a question from defense attorney Don West, Di Maio said that someone may be able to move their arms after receiving a similar gunshot.

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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Jul 9 2013, 02:18 PM Post #1079
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Jul 9 2013, 01:19 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57592866-504083/george-zimmerman-trial-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman-when-teen-was-shot-gunshot-wound-expert-testifies/

A nationally renowned gunshot wound expert testified Tuesday that Trayvon Martin's gunshot wound was consistent with accused murderer George Zimmerman's story that the teen was on top of him and leaning over when he was shot.

Prosecutors have said that George Zimmerman told investigators he moved Martin's arms away from his body after the gunshot, although Martin was found with his arms tucked beneath his chest. Answering a question from defense attorney Don West, Dr Lars said that someone may be able to move their arms after receiving a similar gunshot.

Fixed your post...
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Mr Gray Jul 10 2013, 06:09 PM Post #1080
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If GZ receives a NG verdict, will the black community riot, and if so will it be against whites or Hispanics or just parked cars and liquor stores?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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