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George Zimmerman ; Combined Threads
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 11 2012, 01:36 PM (8,489 Views)
HoosierLars Sep 10 2013, 03:21 PM Post #1231
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Jazen
Sep 10 2013, 02:56 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Sep 10 2013, 02:54 PM
That must have been one weak ass punch.
Good thing he has a gun.
One positive about guns is it allows weaker folks to defend themselves against stronger ones. E.g. a slight woman can defeat a strong mugger with her handgun. I like the way guns even the playing field.
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Mr Gray Sep 10 2013, 03:22 PM Post #1232
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dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 03:16 PM
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Sep 10 2013, 03:08 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 03:03 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Sep 10 2013, 03:00 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
Just curious Dreach, I believe it was you and bri who stated that Zimmermanns injuries weren't bad enough to warrant what he did, I believe you even said that they weren't bad enough for his life to be endangered. Is the father-in-laws injuries bad enough?
Of course not.
You have a very narrow definition of when lethal self defense is appropriate don't you dreach?
Not really. When someone feels their life is imminently in danger. I've been punched. I didn't feel like my life was imminently in danger.
that girl in 4th grade doesn't count
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Sep 10 2013, 03:22 PM Post #1233
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Sep 10 2013, 03:22 PM
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Sep 10 2013, 03:16 PM
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Sep 10 2013, 03:08 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 03:03 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Sep 10 2013, 03:00 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
Just curious Dreach, I believe it was you and bri who stated that Zimmermanns injuries weren't bad enough to warrant what he did, I believe you even said that they weren't bad enough for his life to be endangered. Is the father-in-laws injuries bad enough?
Of course not.
You have a very narrow definition of when lethal self defense is appropriate don't you dreach?
Not really. When someone feels their life is imminently in danger. I've been punched. I didn't feel like my life was imminently in danger.
that girl in 4th grade doesn't count
She didn't have YOU in a headlock...
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brumdog44 Sep 10 2013, 09:10 PM Post #1234
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Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
sounds like attempted murder.

br
it's a little off topic, but I've always had a problem with the fact that attempted murder carries such smaller punishment vs actual murder....I mean the act was identical, which IMO is where punishment should be derived, not from the result. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I don't want an attempted murderer walking my streets any more than a murderer.
I agree with that. But I don't believe in 99.9% of the cases where someone is hitting someone else that their intention is to kill.
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Mr Gray Sep 11 2013, 12:37 AM Post #1235
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Sep 10 2013, 02:50 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
sounds like attempted murder.

br
it's a little off topic, but I've always had a problem with the fact that attempted murder carries such smaller punishment vs actual murder....I mean the act was identical, which IMO is where punishment should be derived, not from the result. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I don't want an attempted murderer walking my streets any more than a murderer.
I agree with that. But I don't believe in 99.9% of the cases where someone is hitting someone else that their intention is to kill.
I agree with that and never said otherwise. I don't think someone has to have intent to kill you in order for you to defend yourself as if your life were in danger.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Sep 11 2013, 01:36 AM Post #1236
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Sep 11 2013, 12:37 AM
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Sep 10 2013, 02:50 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
sounds like attempted murder.

br
it's a little off topic, but I've always had a problem with the fact that attempted murder carries such smaller punishment vs actual murder....I mean the act was identical, which IMO is where punishment should be derived, not from the result. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I don't want an attempted murderer walking my streets any more than a murderer.
I agree with that. But I don't believe in 99.9% of the cases where someone is hitting someone else that their intention is to kill.
I agree with that and never said otherwise. I don't think someone has to have intent to kill you in order for you to defend yourself as if your life were in danger.
that's a slippery slope statement that inherently points out the weakness in the stand your ground law.

br
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brumdog44 Sep 11 2013, 06:45 AM Post #1237
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Sep 10 2013, 02:50 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
sounds like attempted murder.

br
it's a little off topic, but I've always had a problem with the fact that attempted murder carries such smaller punishment vs actual murder....I mean the act was identical, which IMO is where punishment should be derived, not from the result. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I don't want an attempted murderer walking my streets any more than a murderer.
I agree with that. But I don't believe in 99.9% of the cases where someone is hitting someone else that their intention is to kill.
I agree with that and never said otherwise. I don't think someone has to have intent to kill you in order for you to defend yourself as if your life were in danger.
At which point you have to question the judgement of the individual in whether they cn reasonably assess the situation. I think it can be argued from Zimmerman's actions in previous 911 calls plus his actions immediately prior to his physical confrontation with Martin that he lacked the ability to reasonably assess danger.
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Mr Gray Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM Post #1238
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Sep 11 2013, 06:45 AM
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Sep 11 2013, 12:37 AM
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Sep 10 2013, 09:10 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 10 2013, 03:04 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 10 2013, 02:50 PM
dreachon
Sep 10 2013, 12:55 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 10 2013, 12:34 PM
There's a big difference between "defending" and wanting factual reporting. Divorces are often messy things, and I think it's wrong for the world to morbidly watch through a dysfunctional media.
Since you were one that said a punch could be deadly. If George did indeed punch the father in the face would the father have had the right to shoot him?
sounds like attempted murder.

br
it's a little off topic, but I've always had a problem with the fact that attempted murder carries such smaller punishment vs actual murder....I mean the act was identical, which IMO is where punishment should be derived, not from the result. Maybe I'm alone in that, but I don't want an attempted murderer walking my streets any more than a murderer.
I agree with that. But I don't believe in 99.9% of the cases where someone is hitting someone else that their intention is to kill.
I agree with that and never said otherwise. I don't think someone has to have intent to kill you in order for you to defend yourself as if your life were in danger.
At which point you have to question the judgement of the individual in whether they cn reasonably assess the situation. I think it can be argued from Zimmerman's actions in previous 911 calls plus his actions immediately prior to his physical confrontation with Martin that he lacked the ability to reasonably assess danger.
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM Post #1239
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Mr Gray
Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
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brumdog44 Sep 11 2013, 06:59 PM Post #1240
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Trayvon Martin would disagree with assessment about it being the best way to handle it.

Sufficient evidence to prove Zimmerman innocent was not needed. Insufficient evidence to prove him guilty was. Big difference.
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brumdog44 Sep 11 2013, 07:00 PM Post #1241
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Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM
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Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
Or wanna be tough guys will start carrying guns so they can stalk teenagers with skittles.
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HoosierLars Sep 11 2013, 07:42 PM Post #1242
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brumdog44
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HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM
Mr Gray
Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
Or wanna be tough guys will start carrying guns so they can stalk teenagers with skittles.
I guess you can make that argument too. It's interesting how the liberal/non-liberal posters have taken the expected sides on this topic.
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brumdog44 Sep 11 2013, 07:49 PM Post #1243
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HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 07:42 PM
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Sep 11 2013, 07:00 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM
Mr Gray
Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
Or wanna be tough guys will start carrying guns so they can stalk teenagers with skittles.
I guess you can make that argument too. It's interesting how the liberal/non-liberal posters have taken the expected sides on this topic.
But IMO it has nothing to do with gun control.....Florida's laws are what they are and re to be followed as long as they are on the books. And Zimmerman has his day in court and was found not guilty (which I predicted he would). I just disagree that his actions were rational and that even if his scenario is completely true that he doesn't bear partial responsibility.
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HoosierLars Sep 11 2013, 08:30 PM Post #1244
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Sep 11 2013, 07:49 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 07:42 PM
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Sep 11 2013, 07:00 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM
Mr Gray
Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
Or wanna be tough guys will start carrying guns so they can stalk teenagers with skittles.
I guess you can make that argument too. It's interesting how the liberal/non-liberal posters have taken the expected sides on this topic.
But IMO it has nothing to do with gun control.....Florida's laws are what they are and re to be followed as long as they are on the books. And Zimmerman has his day in court and was found not guilty (which I predicted he would). I just disagree that his actions were rational and that even if his scenario is completely true that he doesn't bear partial responsibility.
I think all states have self-defense laws, which was the key to this case. "Bearing partial responsibility" doesn't equate to a murder conviction according to the logic of non-liberals.
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brumdog44 Sep 11 2013, 11:35 PM Post #1245
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HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 08:30 PM
brumdog44
Sep 11 2013, 07:49 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 07:42 PM
brumdog44
Sep 11 2013, 07:00 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 11 2013, 10:59 AM
Mr Gray
Sep 11 2013, 06:55 AM
I don't think you only take the persons word for it. An investigation into supporting evidence is appropriate. In the case of GZ, his injuries and eye witness accounts were sufficient evidence. There are certainly loopholes, but I think it's the best way to handle it without a lock-down police force regulating our every move.
Another positive of the GZ trial is that wanna be tough guys might think twice before opening a can of whoop-ass on a short, soft Hispanic guy.
Or wanna be tough guys will start carrying guns so they can stalk teenagers with skittles.
I guess you can make that argument too. It's interesting how the liberal/non-liberal posters have taken the expected sides on this topic.
But IMO it has nothing to do with gun control.....Florida's laws are what they are and re to be followed as long as they are on the books. And Zimmerman has his day in court and was found not guilty (which I predicted he would). I just disagree that his actions were rational and that even if his scenario is completely true that he doesn't bear partial responsibility.
I think all states have self-defense laws, which was the key to this case. "Bearing partial responsibility" doesn't equate to a murder conviction according to the logic of non-liberals.
How many times do I have to say that under the law he wouldn't be found guilty? I don't think I've ever suggested otherwise.

Stop the liberal blaming bullshit. I've said his actions were not convict able....so just stop.
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