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Gun Control
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Topic Started: Apr 30 2013, 09:31 AM (860 Views)
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Mr Gray
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May 4 2013, 06:59 PM
Post #61
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Coach
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- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 05:07 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 04:05 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 02:49 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 12:10 PM
Wasn't Obamacare supposed to lower premiums? My point is that there is no way the insurance industry will save a huge amount and then turn around a lower everyone's premiums. It's about profit. They will not relinquish profits that they are already achieving, just my opinion. I can show you any kind og savings you want on paper, it's all relative to what I'm charging you.
First of all. That's not what you said. You said insurance companies would raise premiums and then offer discounts for breathalyzers at a lower rate than they raised the premium. To me, that makes no sense. Second of all, if it costs less for the insurance companies to insure people, than they can lower insurance premiums and still make the same or more profit than they are currently making.
And I'm saying they won't lower premiums
Aren't you a proponent of the free market? If significant profits can be had by a company by offering lower premiums and gaining a larger market share because of those low premiums, won't the market encourage a company to take that path? Dreach, you are correct that if cost to insure went down, it would lead to a free market drop in premiums...or at least a decrease in its rate of rise. I'm not in insurance, so although the cost of a claim arising from a drunk accident causing can obviously be substantial, I don't know significant it is as a part of the entire pie.
It would be nice to see the free market actually enact something where those who voluntarily installed a breathalyzer would get a discount. That would at least show us how much a policy would truly benefit citizens financially.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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May 4 2013, 07:31 PM
Post #62
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The guy picked last in gym class
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The problem IMO is that it wouldn't be worth it monetarily to insurance companies to do so because those who are low risk would be the ones who get them installed. What might be worth their while is, after raising rates on those who had accidents, providing incentives to eventually take some of that increased rate down for installing one.
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dreachon
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May 4 2013, 09:23 PM
Post #63
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- May 4 2013, 06:59 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 05:07 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 04:05 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 02:49 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 12:10 PM
Wasn't Obamacare supposed to lower premiums? My point is that there is no way the insurance industry will save a huge amount and then turn around a lower everyone's premiums. It's about profit. They will not relinquish profits that they are already achieving, just my opinion. I can show you any kind og savings you want on paper, it's all relative to what I'm charging you.
First of all. That's not what you said. You said insurance companies would raise premiums and then offer discounts for breathalyzers at a lower rate than they raised the premium. To me, that makes no sense. Second of all, if it costs less for the insurance companies to insure people, than they can lower insurance premiums and still make the same or more profit than they are currently making.
And I'm saying they won't lower premiums
Aren't you a proponent of the free market? If significant profits can be had by a company by offering lower premiums and gaining a larger market share because of those low premiums, won't the market encourage a company to take that path?
Dreach, you are correct that if cost to insure went down, it would lead to a free market drop in premiums...or at least a decrease in its rate of rise. I'm not in insurance, so although the cost of a claim arising from a drunk accident causing can obviously be substantial, I don't know significant it is as a part of the entire pie. It would be nice to see the free market actually enact something where those who voluntarily installed a breathalyzer would get a discount. That would at least show us how much a policy would truly benefit citizens financially. I agree, and I'm obviously not in insurance either. But the drop wouldn't have to be significant, especially when you combine it with the decrease that would also occur in health insurance. Eventually, you won't need breathalyzers. Even now the technology exists in to scan your fingerprint and determine your blood alcohol level. I imagine once the technology is good enough it could be incorporated into the steering wheel. The car will be able to determine your blood alcohol level in mere seconds. A far cry from the hindrance of a breathalyzer.
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brumdog44
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May 4 2013, 10:06 PM
Post #64
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 09:23 PM
- Mr Gray
- May 4 2013, 06:59 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 05:07 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 04:05 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 02:49 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 12:10 PM
Wasn't Obamacare supposed to lower premiums? My point is that there is no way the insurance industry will save a huge amount and then turn around a lower everyone's premiums. It's about profit. They will not relinquish profits that they are already achieving, just my opinion. I can show you any kind og savings you want on paper, it's all relative to what I'm charging you.
First of all. That's not what you said. You said insurance companies would raise premiums and then offer discounts for breathalyzers at a lower rate than they raised the premium. To me, that makes no sense. Second of all, if it costs less for the insurance companies to insure people, than they can lower insurance premiums and still make the same or more profit than they are currently making.
And I'm saying they won't lower premiums
Aren't you a proponent of the free market? If significant profits can be had by a company by offering lower premiums and gaining a larger market share because of those low premiums, won't the market encourage a company to take that path?
Dreach, you are correct that if cost to insure went down, it would lead to a free market drop in premiums...or at least a decrease in its rate of rise. I'm not in insurance, so although the cost of a claim arising from a drunk accident causing can obviously be substantial, I don't know significant it is as a part of the entire pie. It would be nice to see the free market actually enact something where those who voluntarily installed a breathalyzer would get a discount. That would at least show us how much a policy would truly benefit citizens financially.
I agree, and I'm obviously not in insurance either. But the drop wouldn't have to be significant, especially when you combine it with the decrease that would also occur in health insurance. Eventually, you won't need breathalyzers. Even now the technology exists in to scan your fingerprint and determine your blood alcohol level. I imagine once the technology is good enough it could be incorporated into the steering wheel. The car will be able to determine your blood alcohol level in mere seconds. A far cry from the hindrance of a breathalyzer. What about driving gloves? :P
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IUCOLTFAN
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May 5 2013, 10:00 AM
Post #65
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- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 05:07 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 04:05 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 02:49 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 12:10 PM
Wasn't Obamacare supposed to lower premiums? My point is that there is no way the insurance industry will save a huge amount and then turn around a lower everyone's premiums. It's about profit. They will not relinquish profits that they are already achieving, just my opinion. I can show you any kind og savings you want on paper, it's all relative to what I'm charging you.
First of all. That's not what you said. You said insurance companies would raise premiums and then offer discounts for breathalyzers at a lower rate than they raised the premium. To me, that makes no sense. Second of all, if it costs less for the insurance companies to insure people, than they can lower insurance premiums and still make the same or more profit than they are currently making.
And I'm saying they won't lower premiums
Aren't you a proponent of the free market? If significant profits can be had by a company by offering lower premiums and gaining a larger market share because of those low premiums, won't the market encourage a company to take that path? I think there is a certain amount of collusion in the insurance industry....just my opinion
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dreachon
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May 5 2013, 11:05 AM
Post #66
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Creative Title Here
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- IUCOLTFAN
- May 5 2013, 10:00 AM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 05:07 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 04:05 PM
- dreachon
- May 4 2013, 02:49 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 4 2013, 12:10 PM
Wasn't Obamacare supposed to lower premiums? My point is that there is no way the insurance industry will save a huge amount and then turn around a lower everyone's premiums. It's about profit. They will not relinquish profits that they are already achieving, just my opinion. I can show you any kind og savings you want on paper, it's all relative to what I'm charging you.
First of all. That's not what you said. You said insurance companies would raise premiums and then offer discounts for breathalyzers at a lower rate than they raised the premium. To me, that makes no sense. Second of all, if it costs less for the insurance companies to insure people, than they can lower insurance premiums and still make the same or more profit than they are currently making.
And I'm saying they won't lower premiums
Aren't you a proponent of the free market? If significant profits can be had by a company by offering lower premiums and gaining a larger market share because of those low premiums, won't the market encourage a company to take that path?
I think there is a certain amount of collusion in the insurance industry....just my opinion Well, I suppose there could be. I just know for me personally, I have gotten wildly different quotes from the big name insurance companies. Local insurance companies though almost always give me the best rate.
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IUCOLTFAN
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May 7 2013, 09:30 PM
Post #67
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http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-gun-crimes-pew-report-20130507,0,3022693.story
Interesting....
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brumdog44
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May 7 2013, 10:01 PM
Post #68
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The guy picked last in gym class
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The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up while they actually are lower than in the past. Does that mean those against abortion should not fight against it?
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Mr Gray
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May 8 2013, 06:26 AM
Post #69
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The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up while they actually are lower than in the past. Does that mean those against abortion should not fight against it? I can't find a survey that says most Americans believe abortions are up. I thought it was pretty well known that they are down.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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May 8 2013, 07:01 AM
Post #70
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 06:26 AM
- brumdog44
- May 7 2013, 10:01 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 7 2013, 09:30 PM
The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up while they actually are lower than in the past. Does that mean those against abortion should not fight against it?
I can't find a survey that says most Americans believe abortions are up. I thought it was pretty well known that they are down. What surveys are you finding that say people believe they are down? My guess is that you aren't finding many surveys, period, because there aren't many on the subject.
The point is that just as I would hope that you would stand fast on your ideals on abortion in the face of people not knowing the actual numbers because that's not the actual point. You believe abortion is murder, therefore regardless of the number of abortions, you would fight against them being legal. If I believe that there is something that would further drop the number of shooting deaths then would I not be doing an injustice to not fight for that regardless for those laws to put in place?
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Mr Gray
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May 8 2013, 10:57 AM
Post #71
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- brumdog44
- May 8 2013, 07:01 AM
- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 06:26 AM
- brumdog44
- May 7 2013, 10:01 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 7 2013, 09:30 PM
The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up while they actually are lower than in the past. Does that mean those against abortion should not fight against it?
I can't find a survey that says most Americans believe abortions are up. I thought it was pretty well known that they are down.
What surveys are you finding that say people believe they are down? My guess is that you aren't finding many surveys, period, because there aren't many on the subject. The point is that just as I would hope that you would stand fast on your ideals on abortion in the face of people not knowing the actual numbers because that's not the actual point. You believe abortion is murder, therefore regardless of the number of abortions, you would fight against them being legal. If I believe that there is something that would further drop the number of shooting deaths then would I not be doing an injustice to not fight for that regardless for those laws to put in place? you said the following: "The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up". I'm just wondering what you based that on....colt provided an actual survey for his story, and I can't find where he said that people should stop fighting to end gun violence.
I can't speak for Colt for sure, but my guess is that that wasn't his point at all (that people should stop fighting to end gun violence), rather that there is some deception out there in creating public sentiment about gun violence. That deception likely comes from those in politics and the media who want increased gun control.
Edited by Mr Gray, May 8 2013, 11:01 AM.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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IUCOLTFAN
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May 8 2013, 12:32 PM
Post #72
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Coach
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- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 10:57 AM
- brumdog44
- May 8 2013, 07:01 AM
- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 06:26 AM
- brumdog44
- May 7 2013, 10:01 PM
- IUCOLTFAN
- May 7 2013, 09:30 PM
The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up while they actually are lower than in the past. Does that mean those against abortion should not fight against it?
I can't find a survey that says most Americans believe abortions are up. I thought it was pretty well known that they are down.
What surveys are you finding that say people believe they are down? My guess is that you aren't finding many surveys, period, because there aren't many on the subject. The point is that just as I would hope that you would stand fast on your ideals on abortion in the face of people not knowing the actual numbers because that's not the actual point. You believe abortion is murder, therefore regardless of the number of abortions, you would fight against them being legal. If I believe that there is something that would further drop the number of shooting deaths then would I not be doing an injustice to not fight for that regardless for those laws to put in place?
you said the following: "The same can be shown for abortion....the majority believe the rates are up". I'm just wondering what you based that on....colt provided an actual survey for his story, and I can't find where he said that people should stop fighting to end gun violence. I can't speak for Colt for sure, but my guess is that that wasn't his point at all (that people should stop fighting to end gun violence), rather that there is some deception out there in creating public sentiment about gun violence. That deception likely comes from those in politics and the media who want increased gun control. All I said was that I found the numbers interesting. Someone else attempted to take it another direction.
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brumdog44
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May 8 2013, 05:04 PM
Post #73
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 10:57 AM
I can't speak for Colt for sure, but my guess is that that wasn't his point at all (that people should stop fighting to end gun violence), rather that there is some deception out there in creating public sentiment about gun violence. That deception likely comes from those in politics and the media who want increased gun control. If you want me to find surveys that link what people think has happened to abortion rates to what has actually happened, I will say that I would have a hard time finding them simply because it isn't something that is being polled, so I'll cede that point.
And as long as republicans in general think it's all about the big bad media, you will continue to lose elections.
Because you aren't going to convince me that the NRA isn't out that deceiving on the other end. We had a mass shooting at a school and they are selling the solution is more guns.
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Mr Gray
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May 8 2013, 05:30 PM
Post #74
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- May 8 2013, 05:04 PM
- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 10:57 AM
I can't speak for Colt for sure, but my guess is that that wasn't his point at all (that people should stop fighting to end gun violence), rather that there is some deception out there in creating public sentiment about gun violence. That deception likely comes from those in politics and the media who want increased gun control.
If you want me to find surveys that link what people think has happened to abortion rates to what has actually happened, I will say that I would have a hard time finding them simply because it isn't something that is being polled, so I'll cede that point. And as long as republicans in general think it's all about the big bad media, you will continue to lose elections. Because you aren't going to convince me that the NRA isn't out that deceiving on the other end. We had a mass shooting at a school and they are selling the solution is more guns. Well, based on the survey, the NRA certainly isn't doing it as much as their opponents.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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May 8 2013, 05:31 PM
Post #75
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 05:30 PM
- brumdog44
- May 8 2013, 05:04 PM
- Mr Gray
- May 8 2013, 10:57 AM
I can't speak for Colt for sure, but my guess is that that wasn't his point at all (that people should stop fighting to end gun violence), rather that there is some deception out there in creating public sentiment about gun violence. That deception likely comes from those in politics and the media who want increased gun control.
If you want me to find surveys that link what people think has happened to abortion rates to what has actually happened, I will say that I would have a hard time finding them simply because it isn't something that is being polled, so I'll cede that point. And as long as republicans in general think it's all about the big bad media, you will continue to lose elections. Because you aren't going to convince me that the NRA isn't out that deceiving on the other end. We had a mass shooting at a school and they are selling the solution is more guns.
Well, based on the survey, the NRA certainly isn't doing it as much as their opponents. Or maybe what they are shoveling is easier to spot.
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