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Texas 20 week abortion bill
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Topic Started: Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM (326 Views)
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IUCOLTFAN
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Jul 14 2013, 07:32 AM
Post #31
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Coach
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What happened to "if it saves even one life"? Aren't those 9 women per year worth saving?
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HoosierLars
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Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
Post #32
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3 in a row
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM
Wait.....at 22 weeks is a rape fetus less human than a non rape fetus?
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again? My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections.
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HoosierLars
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Jul 14 2013, 10:07 AM
Post #33
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3 in a row
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:02 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:12 AM
Since you are normally pro-freedom, couldn't the women be making this decision about safety, not the government?
Yes, if we were consistent in that. Unfortunately we aren't. So you are pro-freedom unless the tyranny helps promote your personal views?
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Mr Gray
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Jul 14 2013, 12:16 PM
Post #34
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Coach
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- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:07 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:02 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:12 AM
Since you are normally pro-freedom, couldn't the women be making this decision about safety, not the government?
Yes, if we were consistent in that. Unfortunately we aren't.
So you are pro-freedom unless the tyranny helps promote your personal views? No. If we are going to regulate the safety and sanitation of medical procedure facilities, then we need to be fair across the board. Abortion clinics should not get a pass because of the politics of the issue itself.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Jul 14 2013, 12:19 PM
Post #35
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Coach
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- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM
Wait.....at 22 weeks is a rape fetus less human than a non rape fetus?
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again?
My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections. Here is what you said, and it wasn't from your initial post.
- Quote:
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I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
That statement wasnt about politics or compromise. So are you retracting it?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars
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Jul 14 2013, 01:37 PM
Post #36
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3 in a row
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:19 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM
Wait.....at 22 weeks is a rape fetus less human than a non rape fetus?
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again?
My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections.
Here is what you said, and it wasn't from your initial post. - Quote:
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I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
That statement wasnt about politics or compromise. So are you retracting it? I have a really difficult time with this one. The woman/girl should know if she wants to abort a rape/incest baby before 20 weeks, but what if extenuating circumstances push the decision to 21 weeks. Would I allow that? I don't know... Politically, I would like to allow it to take the "Repubs are against abortion even in the case of rape/incest" argument off the table.
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Mr Gray
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Jul 14 2013, 03:25 PM
Post #37
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Coach
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- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:19 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM
Wait.....at 22 weeks is a rape fetus less human than a non rape fetus?
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again?
My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections.
Here is what you said, and it wasn't from your initial post. - Quote:
-
I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
That statement wasnt about politics or compromise. So are you retracting it?
I have a really difficult time with this one. The woman/girl should know if she wants to abort a rape/incest baby before 20 weeks, but what if extenuating circumstances push the decision to 21 weeks. Would I allow that? I don't know... Politically, I would like to allow it to take the "Repubs are against abortion even in the case of rape/incest" argument off the table. What about 25 or 30 weeks?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars
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Jul 14 2013, 05:28 PM
Post #38
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3 in a row
- Posts:
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 03:25 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:19 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 09:26 AM
Wait.....at 22 weeks is a rape fetus less human than a non rape fetus?
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again?
My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections.
Here is what you said, and it wasn't from your initial post. - Quote:
-
I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
That statement wasnt about politics or compromise. So are you retracting it?
I have a really difficult time with this one. The woman/girl should know if she wants to abort a rape/incest baby before 20 weeks, but what if extenuating circumstances push the decision to 21 weeks. Would I allow that? I don't know... Politically, I would like to allow it to take the "Repubs are against abortion even in the case of rape/incest" argument off the table.
What about 25 or 30 weeks? We're talking about such a small number of cases that it's not worth spending any more effort debating it here. I'm more concerned with the big picture, e.g. winning back the Presidency and Congress from the left.
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brumdog44
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Jul 14 2013, 05:58 PM
Post #39
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:16 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:07 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:02 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:12 AM
Since you are normally pro-freedom, couldn't the women be making this decision about safety, not the government?
Yes, if we were consistent in that. Unfortunately we aren't.
So you are pro-freedom unless the tyranny helps promote your personal views?
No. If we are going to regulate the safety and sanitation of medical procedure facilities, then we need to be fair across the board. Abortion clinics should not get a pass because of the politics of the issue itself. Except your theory tragically fails because abortions are by and large NOT causing health issues even when treated in abortion clinics. This has everything to do with your personal view on abortion as well those of the Texas legislature.
Compare the death rates of cosmetic surgery....cosmetic surgery death rates a re MUCH higher. Yet in Texas, the requirements for performing cosmetic surgeries are a joke.
http://www.measuringworth.com/DJIA_SP_NASDAQ/result.php
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brumdog44
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Jul 14 2013, 06:02 PM
Post #40
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:16 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:07 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:02 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:12 AM
Since you are normally pro-freedom, couldn't the women be making this decision about safety, not the government?
Yes, if we were consistent in that. Unfortunately we aren't.
So you are pro-freedom unless the tyranny helps promote your personal views?
No. If we are going to regulate the safety and sanitation of medical procedure facilities, then we need to be fair across the board. Abortion clinics should not get a pass because of the politics of the issue itself. Again, tell me how that is the case when plastic surgeries aren't treated that way (hell, you don't even have to be a doctor, have any real training in using a laser, or have a center that has to follow sterilization standards). No public outcry from pro-lifers about that.
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brumdog44
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Jul 14 2013, 06:11 PM
Post #41
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The guy picked last in gym class
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A pediatrician's response on how the 20 week ban could actually have the counter effect of an increase in the number of abortions as women will e relying on less accurate ultrasounds earlier in the pregnancy for major birth defects.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2013/07/texas_abortion_ban_after_20_weeks_prenatal_testing_reveals_birth_defects.html
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IUCOLTFAN
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Jul 14 2013, 06:53 PM
Post #42
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Coach
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There is a death during every abortion....
Some don't see it that way. If you don't count the fetus/baby, I'm sure there is more deaths from cosmetic surgery.
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Mr Gray
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Jul 14 2013, 07:10 PM
Post #43
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Coach
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- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 05:28 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 03:25 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 12:19 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 10:05 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 14 2013, 07:03 AM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 14 2013, 01:13 AM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 08:20 PM
- HoosierLars
- Jul 13 2013, 07:40 PM
- Mr Gray
- Jul 13 2013, 05:14 PM
Basically the rape/incest exception after 20 weeks would be an extremely rare exception, and so it will effect a very small number of cases. I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
So where would you put the limit on a orations due to rape or incest? 21 weeks, 25, 35, 40?
Personally, I would set the abortion limit to 8-10 weeks, and I think that 20 weeks is a reasonable limit for rape or incest.
Read your previous post. What did you say abou 21 weeks again?
My initial post was more of a reaction to how the Repubs lost two Senate seats due to candidates making statements against the rape/incest exception. I hate seeing them make unforced political errors like that. There are times when I moderate my own personal views to reach a consensus with those I disagree with, and to win elections.
Here is what you said, and it wasn't from your initial post. - Quote:
-
I could see a girl hiding rape/incest due to shame, and if it comes out in week 21 she should have the legal option to abort her baby.
That statement wasnt about politics or compromise. So are you retracting it?
I have a really difficult time with this one. The woman/girl should know if she wants to abort a rape/incest baby before 20 weeks, but what if extenuating circumstances push the decision to 21 weeks. Would I allow that? I don't know... Politically, I would like to allow it to take the "Repubs are against abortion even in the case of rape/incest" argument off the table.
What about 25 or 30 weeks?
We're talking about such a small number of cases that it's not worth spending any more effort debating it here. I'm more concerned with the big picture, e.g. winning back the Presidency and Congress from the left. Interesting considering you were the only one who made that comment about rApe and incest. Nice job walking back.
Edited by Mr Gray, Jul 14 2013, 09:32 PM.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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Jul 14 2013, 07:14 PM
Post #44
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- IUCOLTFAN
- Jul 14 2013, 06:53 PM
There is a death during every abortion....
Some don't see it that way. If you don't count the fetus/baby, I'm sure there is more deaths from cosmetic surgery. And while you might not see it that way, abortion is not legally the death of a human being.
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dreachon
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Jul 14 2013, 08:23 PM
Post #45
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Creative Title Here
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- brumdog44
- Jul 14 2013, 06:11 PM
I don't think that will be an issue for very long. There is a cutting edge procedure to check for major birth defects at 11 weeks. It is literally brand new as with our first child it didn't exist and with our most recent one just 1.5 years later it was part of the normal process. What happens is that you have an ultrasound at 11 weeks and the doctor can measure the fluid in the back of the neck. If it is greater that 3mm wide, than it is an indicator for Downs or Trisomy 18 something like 90% of the time. At that point they would do an amniocentesis to be sure.
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