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Minimum Wage; ..for your consumption
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 16 2013, 01:14 PM (1,713 Views)
IUCOLTFAN Jul 24 2013, 10:55 AM Post #226
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Jul 24 2013, 09:16 AM
First of all, the dirt-cheap rent market can in no way sustain the amount of people working minimum wage.

In addition, you basically left zero money in case the individual gets sick (because I'm sure the McD's basic health plan is amazing).

I don't think we should be aiming for minimum wage employees to own houses, but we definitely have to increase it. To what? I'll leave that for the economists to answer, but it doesn't take a genius to see that it's practically impossible to pull it off.

Another issue that has been mentioned earlier is restaurants' ability to pay their employees as low as $2 an hour. Awful.

br
Not even close to true....there is a surplus of cheap rent housing, and not everyone on minimum wage needs to live on their own...many live with family. They can even get cheaper with roommates.

And you said I "basically left zero money in case the individual gets sick".....also not true.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8303615&t=7346944
I left anywhere from $265 - $596 per month for savings or emergency. I would suggest a cheap HSA plan to cover major illness...etc if that isn't available through your employer's or family's insurance plan.

That also is based on working between 40 - 52 hours per week, which leaves additional hours out there to work more, or make strides to better your position in life.

Next red herring?
+1

Brian thinks all that make minimum wage are victims.....really sad way to look at it, IMO.
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Mr Gray Jul 25 2013, 08:04 AM Post #227
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Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 09:30 AM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 24 2013, 09:16 AM
First of all, the dirt-cheap rent market can in no way sustain the amount of people working minimum wage.

In addition, you basically left zero money in case the individual gets sick (because I'm sure the McD's basic health plan is amazing).

I don't think we should be aiming for minimum wage employees to own houses, but we definitely have to increase it. To what? I'll leave that for the economists to answer, but it doesn't take a genius to see that it's practically impossible to pull it off.

Another issue that has been mentioned earlier is restaurants' ability to pay their employees as low as $2 an hour. Awful.

br
Not even close to true....there is a surplus of cheap rent housing, and not everyone on minimum wage needs to live on their own...many live with family. They can even get cheaper with roommates.

And you said I "basically left zero money in case the individual gets sick".....also not true.
http://s15.zetaboards.com/Our_Hoosier_Board/single/?p=8303615&t=7346944
I left anywhere from $265 - $596 per month for savings or emergency. I would suggest a cheap HSA plan to cover major illness...etc if that isn't available through your employer's or family's insurance plan.

That also is based on working between 40 - 52 hours per week, which leaves additional hours out there to work more, or make strides to better your position in life.

Next red herring?
bump to brian
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM Post #228
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Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
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Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM Post #229
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Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
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Mr Gray Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM Post #230
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Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Aug 1 2013, 09:39 AM Post #231
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Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
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Mr Gray Aug 1 2013, 09:44 AM Post #232
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Aug 1 2013, 09:39 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM
dreachon
Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
no dreach....they aren't "passing" anything...that individual is passing their own costs of living onto taxpayers.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Aug 1 2013, 09:53 AM Post #233
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Aug 1 2013, 09:44 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
no dreach....they aren't "passing" anything...that individual is passing their own costs of living onto taxpayers.
pOtato poTAto.


It is corporate welfare and you know it at some level. Walmart is as evil as corporations come.
Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Aug 1 2013, 09:59 AM Post #234
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Aug 1 2013, 09:39 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM
dreachon
Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
no dreach....they aren't "passing" anything...that individual is passing their own costs of living onto taxpayers.
pOtato poTAto.


It is corporate welfare and you know it at some level. Walmart is as evil as corporations come.
It isn't corporate welfare at all....it's individual welfare. Walmart or whoever chooses the wage that they believe they can get employees to do the job for, the government CHOOSES to subsidize those individuals who are willing to work for low wages. If the government welfare was cut off or down, less people would be willing or able to work for low wages forcing the Walmarts of the world to raise wages in order to attract employees.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Aug 1 2013, 10:16 AM Post #235
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Aug 1 2013, 09:39 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM
dreachon
Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
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Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deephttp://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
no dreach....they aren't "passing" anything...that individual is passing their own costs of living onto taxpayers.
pOtato poTAto.


It is corporate welfare and you know it at some level. Walmart is as evil as corporations come.
It isn't corporate welfare at all....it's individual welfare. Walmart or whoever chooses the wage that they believe they can get employees to do the job for, the government CHOOSES to subsidize those individuals who are willing to work for low wages. If the government welfare was cut off or down, less people would be willing or able to work for low wages forcing the Walmarts of the world to raise wages in order to attract employees.
So if by some weird happening foodstamps, medicare, and section 8 housing were eliminated tomorrow, how many employees would Walmart have? If they know this, and take advantage of it, how are they not at least partially to blame?


Posted Image

"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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brumdog44 Aug 1 2013, 11:35 AM Post #236
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Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
I asked why the general public was being asked to foot the bill. You answered with a question.
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dreachon Aug 1 2013, 11:44 AM Post #237
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Aug 1 2013, 11:35 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 20 2013, 07:44 PM
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Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:07 PM
dreachon
Jul 20 2013, 03:01 PM
"Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually."


http://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
Basically what's happening is that company's can pass their costs onto consumers by not paying their employees a livable wage.
Where are the people asking about 'why is the corporation asked to foot the bill'? I want to know why general public is asked to pay the living wage difference so the corporation can get off cheap.
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
I asked why the general public was being asked to foot the bill. You answered with a question.
Irony.
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Mr Gray Aug 5 2013, 08:09 AM Post #238
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Mr Gray
Aug 1 2013, 09:32 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:29 AM
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Aug 1 2013, 09:15 AM
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brumdog44
Jul 20 2013, 04:38 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deephttp://www.salon.com/2013/07/18/dont_fall_for_wal_marts_latest_hypocrisy/
When did it become the corporations responsibility to provide for The general welfare of society?
this is a question that seemed to get ignored on this thread, but I think it is important to the discussion. Let's try to actually address the question with an answer instead of another question.
Your question is worded wrong. No one is saying it's the corporations responsibility to provide for the general welfare of society. We're saying it's their responsibility to provide for the general welfare of their own employees.
employees are members of society.....same question. Why are they responsible for providing for the general welfare of anyone who isn't forced to work for them?
Because of this.

Quote:
 
Studies show approximately 80 percent of Wal-Mart employees are forced to use food stamps and cost taxpayers an average of $1.02 billion in healthcare costs annually.


What you have are companies passing the cost of an employee onto the government, and subsequently onto taxpayers.
no dreach....they aren't "passing" anything...that individual is passing their own costs of living onto taxpayers.
pOtato poTAto.


It is corporate welfare and you know it at some level. Walmart is as evil as corporations come.
It isn't corporate welfare at all....it's individual welfare. Walmart or whoever chooses the wage that they believe they can get employees to do the job for, the government CHOOSES to subsidize those individuals who are willing to work for low wages. If the government welfare was cut off or down, less people would be willing or able to work for low wages forcing the Walmarts of the world to raise wages in order to attract employees.
So if by some weird happening foodstamps, medicare, and section 8 housing were eliminated tomorrow, how many employees would Walmart have? If they know this, and take advantage of it, how are they not at least partially to blame?


if Walmart is paying off government officials and politicians to keep these laws in effect for their gain, then they are more than partially to blame. If they are utilizing a law to maximize their profit, they are not to blame. I know how you feel about the mortgage tax credit, but I don't think that you blame the people who have a mortgage do you?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Aug 5 2013, 10:31 AM Post #239
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Actually, Wal-Mart lobbied for an increase in the minimum wage in 2005, the last time it was up for debate. They would stand to gain from their increase from greater sales and from some smaller markets inability to keep up with the increase in minimum wage.

Right now Costco has lobbied for a minimum wage around $10/hour....they already typically pay well above minimum wage.
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Jazen Aug 5 2013, 10:40 AM Post #240
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I don't know the actual numbers on either, but it would be interesting to know the "wage" difference *cough, cough*, on average, between minimum wage and what welfare recipients receive on a monthly basis.
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