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Minimum Wage; ..for your consumption
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 16 2013, 01:14 PM (1,724 Views)
Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 06:20 AM Post #61
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sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:41 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 18 2013, 08:15 PM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:10 PM
Trying to compare percentage increases in minimum wage vs. salaried jobs is a complete display of ignorance. A 40 percent increase to a 50k job turns it into a 70k job. The 2 dollar increase to minimum wage represents roughly 4k/year. That isn't even close to the same.
Brian, I don't think you answered my question about what type of person or situation results in a minimum wage job?
There are millions of underqualified individuals in this country. And a ton of qualified individuals with no job options for their education/experience level.

Do you live in an area without poverty? Do you live in an area where all elementary, middle, and high schools are created equal? Do you live in an area where there are no layoffs? Do you live in an area where kids don't get pregnant? Do you live in an area without orphans? Do you live in an area where small business owners don't suddenly lose their business? Do you live in an area that lacks unskilled labor?

Your question of "what situation results in a minimum wage job" represents a vast departure from reality. Ask yourself that question while chomping down on a bigmac or buying groceries.

Get real and join the conversation.

br
Asking a question is a departure from reality? Quit making assumptions Brian.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 06:25 AM Post #62
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sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:41 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 18 2013, 08:15 PM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:10 PM
Trying to compare percentage increases in minimum wage vs. salaried jobs is a complete display of ignorance. A 40 percent increase to a 50k job turns it into a 70k job. The 2 dollar increase to minimum wage represents roughly 4k/year. That isn't even close to the same.
Brian, I don't think you answered my question about what type of person or situation results in a minimum wage job?
There are millions of underqualified individuals in this country. And a ton of qualified individuals with no job options for their education/experience level.

Do you live in an area without poverty? Do you live in an area where all elementary, middle, and high schools are created equal? Do you live in an area where there are no layoffs? Do you live in an area where kids don't get pregnant? Do you live in an area without orphans? Do you live in an area where small business owners don't suddenly lose their business? Do you live in an area that lacks unskilled labor?

Your question of "what situation results in a minimum wage job" represents a vast departure from reality. Ask yourself that question while chomping down on a bigmac or buying groceries.

Get real and join the conversation.

br
If a person is under qualified for anything but a minimum wage job, shouldn't they scrape by while they enhance their qualifications and move up? Anyone who stays perpetually under qualified to move up at McDonalds isn't too concerned with their own well being....so why should we be?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 07:04 AM Post #63
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Mr Gray
Jul 18 2013, 08:15 PM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:10 PM
Trying to compare percentage increases in minimum wage vs. salaried jobs is a complete display of ignorance. A 40 percent increase to a 50k job turns it into a 70k job. The 2 dollar increase to minimum wage represents roughly 4k/year. That isn't even close to the same.
Brian, I don't think you answered my question about what type of person or situation results in a minimum wage job?
There are millions of underqualified individuals in this country. And a ton of qualified individuals with no job options for their education/experience level.

Do you live in an area without poverty? Do you live in an area where all elementary, middle, and high schools are created equal? Do you live in an area where there are no layoffs? Do you live in an area where kids don't get pregnant? Do you live in an area without orphans? Do you live in an area where small business owners don't suddenly lose their business? Do you live in an area that lacks unskilled labor?

Your question of "what situation results in a minimum wage job" represents a vast departure from reality. Ask yourself that question while chomping down on a bigmac or buying groceries.

Get real and join the conversation.

br
If a person is under qualified for anything but a minimum wage job, shouldn't they scrape by while they enhance their qualifications and move up? Anyone who stays perpetually under qualified to move up at McDonalds isn't too concerned with their own well being....so why should we be?
McDonalds should not be the job you hold to feed your family. growing up I associated those types of jobs with high school students who did not need the money for anything more than spending money. But to Aaron's point, it would be very hard to "enhance your qualifications for something else" if you are working 16 hours a day between your two jobs.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 07:40 AM Post #64
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Jul 19 2013, 07:04 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 19 2013, 06:25 AM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:41 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 18 2013, 08:15 PM
sirbrianwilson
Jul 18 2013, 08:10 PM
Trying to compare percentage increases in minimum wage vs. salaried jobs is a complete display of ignorance. A 40 percent increase to a 50k job turns it into a 70k job. The 2 dollar increase to minimum wage represents roughly 4k/year. That isn't even close to the same.
Brian, I don't think you answered my question about what type of person or situation results in a minimum wage job?
There are millions of underqualified individuals in this country. And a ton of qualified individuals with no job options for their education/experience level.

Do you live in an area without poverty? Do you live in an area where all elementary, middle, and high schools are created equal? Do you live in an area where there are no layoffs? Do you live in an area where kids don't get pregnant? Do you live in an area without orphans? Do you live in an area where small business owners don't suddenly lose their business? Do you live in an area that lacks unskilled labor?

Your question of "what situation results in a minimum wage job" represents a vast departure from reality. Ask yourself that question while chomping down on a bigmac or buying groceries.

Get real and join the conversation.

br
If a person is under qualified for anything but a minimum wage job, shouldn't they scrape by while they enhance their qualifications and move up? Anyone who stays perpetually under qualified to move up at McDonalds isn't too concerned with their own well being....so why should we be?
McDonalds should not be the job you hold to feed your family. growing up I associated those types of jobs with high school students who did not need the money for anything more than spending money. But to Aaron's point, it would be very hard to "enhance your qualifications for something else" if you are working 16 hours a day between your two jobs.
Regarding the high school jobs, that was what I was getting at when I asked Brian the question. Not sure if he intentionally disregarded that answer to make his point or if he just didnt think of it.

You can enhance your qualifications on the job. Learn it well and move up to floor manager or shift manager etc. if you stay perpetually a burger flipper, your doing something wrong that neiher society nor McDonalds should have to to remedy for you.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 08:03 AM Post #65
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Are you saying that everyone has the mental capacity to be a shift manager?

Secondly, in terms of what it takes to support your family......the example that was posted from the McDonald's website wasn't about supporting a family. It was about supporting a single person. So let's say the shift manager position pays $11 per hour....that still works out to th McDonald's position at 40 hours per week not covering expenses.

Most importantly, the number of positions you are talking about are limited....not everyone there can be a shift manager.
Edited by brumdog44, Jul 19 2013, 08:10 AM.
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Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 08:15 AM Post #66
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Jul 19 2013, 08:03 AM
Are you saying that everyone has the mental capacity to be a shift manager?

Secondly, in terms of what it takes to support your family......the example that was posted from the McDonald's website wasn't about supporting a family. It was about supporting a single person. So let's say the shift manager position pays $11 per hour....that still works out to th McDonald's position at 40 hours per week not covering expenses.

Most importantly, the number of positions you are talking about are limited....not everyone there can be a shift manager.
I think if you are not mentally or physically handicapped you can advance your position above minimum wage if you apply yourself. Shift manager isn't a real advanced job brum.

And $11 isn't comfortable but its more than $7 and it cuts down or eliminates the need for a 2nd job or other source of income.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Jul 19 2013, 08:32 AM Post #67
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break down the numbers for being a single mom. quit avoiding the actually issue. it's about the numbers.

br
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Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 08:44 AM Post #68
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Jul 19 2013, 08:32 AM
break down the numbers for being a single mom. quit avoiding the actually issue. it's about the numbers.

br
I can't do that on my phone while I'm sitting here at Creans basketball camp. I'm not avoiding anything. Additionally, you continually act as though the single mom situation should dictate the policy of our entire nation. Open your mind a bit Brian....not everyone making minimum wage is a single mom....and in fact I bet very few of them are.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Jul 19 2013, 09:12 AM Post #69
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Did you checkout the Friedman-Donahue video? I remember that as a kid I was bummed out by the fact that the centrally controlled Soviet economy would probably beat ours, and how could our chaotic system possibly work as well? (Brum and others still favor the hammer and sickle approach)
The problem with your comparison is that this discussion involves a country that already has a large welfare program in place and is very unlikely to remove it.

So, which country sounds more like the Soviet Union:
1. A country where unskilled laborers receive a substantial portion of their income from the government.

2. A country where the government has regulations in place so that unskilled laborers receive their income from their employer.

And similar to the Soviet Union, when you don't receive your pay in direct relation to the work you perform, the productivity of workers will go down.
Comparisons are often helpful when making incremental changes.

1. and 2. sound pretty similar to me. Clearly the US is closer to 2., but many people, e.g. single moms, people on disability, and the elderly, tend more toward 1.

So I think it's fair to say the US achieved great prosperity and productivity using a free-market system, but over time we are shifting more towards socialism, and the inevitable decline. It's interesting that Brum and Brian honestly believe the government can mandate prosperity with the stroke of a pen. I think Obama has been surprised that hasn't been the case during his rule.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 12:20 PM Post #70
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Are you saying that everyone has the mental capacity to be a shift manager?

Secondly, in terms of what it takes to support your family......the example that was posted from the McDonald's website wasn't about supporting a family. It was about supporting a single person. So let's say the shift manager position pays $11 per hour....that still works out to th McDonald's position at 40 hours per week not covering expenses.

Most importantly, the number of positions you are talking about are limited....not everyone there can be a shift manager.
I think if you are not mentally or physically handicapped you can advance your position above minimum wage if you apply yourself. Shift manager isn't a real advanced job brum.

And $11 isn't comfortable but its more than $7 and it cuts down or eliminates the need for a 2nd job or other source of income.
I stated the mental capacity already.

Secondly, as I said, there are a limited number of shift managers.....do if we are talking one position per shift at two shifts it's really not much wiggle room.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 12:22 PM Post #71
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Jul 19 2013, 08:32 AM
break down the numbers for being a single mom. quit avoiding the actually issue. it's about the numbers.

br
I can't do that on my phone while I'm sitting here at Creans basketball camp. I'm not avoiding anything. Additionally, you continually act as though the single mom situation should dictate the policy of our entire nation. Open your mind a bit Brian....not everyone making minimum wage is a single mom....and in fact I bet very few of them are.
The numbers posted from the website, I believe, are not for a single mom. They are for a single person and they basically are showing a need for 70+ hours at minimum wage.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM Post #72
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In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
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BigBlueRampage Jul 19 2013, 12:54 PM Post #73
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Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Exactly while working my fast food job(which I am still doing on the weekends to pay off the debt I earned while out of work) we had 2 minors out of the 35 employees that we had. The fact is the gap has grown between what a high school diploma can get you today compared to what was available even 10 years ago.

Also the 11 an hr number that keeps getting thrown around for a shift manager at a fast food place is about 2 dollars more than what I was offered anywhere. The highest was 9.25 with a guarantee of 40 hours a week(forget OT they refuse to let you get it).



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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 01:08 PM Post #74
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brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Teen employment has been dropping steadily since the early 90's. In the late 80's about 60% of the 16-19 year olds were in the workforce. Now it is closer to 33%. The minimum wage jobs at fastfood places were traditionally manned by teens. I found a stat saying about 13% of the workforce is 16-24. If you just take half of that number then you have about 6.5% of the workforce taking 12% of the jobs. I would believe the 6.5% to be too high for the reason I stated above, there are less teens in the workplace. Teens as a group disproportionately take more minimum wage jobs.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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HoosierLars Jul 19 2013, 01:54 PM Post #75
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eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 01:08 PM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Teen employment has been dropping steadily since the early 90's. In the late 80's about 60% of the 16-19 year olds were in the workforce. Now it is closer to 33%.
Makes sense, as more jobs are exported globally, more adults take lower-skilled, lower-paying jobs in the US. If fast food companies could find a way to export service jobs, they could probably get that labor in Central America for $1/hr.
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