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Minimum Wage; ..for your consumption
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 16 2013, 01:14 PM (1,723 Views)
Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 02:07 PM Post #76
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brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:20 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 19 2013, 08:15 AM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 08:03 AM
Are you saying that everyone has the mental capacity to be a shift manager?

Secondly, in terms of what it takes to support your family......the example that was posted from the McDonald's website wasn't about supporting a family. It was about supporting a single person. So let's say the shift manager position pays $11 per hour....that still works out to th McDonald's position at 40 hours per week not covering expenses.

Most importantly, the number of positions you are talking about are limited....not everyone there can be a shift manager.
I think if you are not mentally or physically handicapped you can advance your position above minimum wage if you apply yourself. Shift manager isn't a real advanced job brum.

And $11 isn't comfortable but its more than $7 and it cuts down or eliminates the need for a 2nd job or other source of income.
I stated the mental capacity already.

Secondly, as I said, there are a limited number of shift managers.....do if we are talking one position per shift at two shifts it's really not much wiggle room.
MCDonalds isn't an exams that I will have enough experience with to quote technical details. However, there are multiple levels of advancement, management, and assistant management. Examples could be front end manager, kitchen manager, assistants for each...etc. and they are usually open 16 hours a day but employees arrive earlier than that and leave later. This creates more opportunity than you described.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 02:45 PM Post #77
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HoosierLars
Jul 19 2013, 01:54 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 01:08 PM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Teen employment has been dropping steadily since the early 90's. In the late 80's about 60% of the 16-19 year olds were in the workforce. Now it is closer to 33%.
Makes sense, as more jobs are exported globally, more adults take lower-skilled, lower-paying jobs in the US. If fast food companies could find a way to export service jobs, they could probably get that labor in Central America for $1/hr.
It is not just that, we overload our children with homework/sports practices/dance recitals/school functions/etc/etc/etc now
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 03:02 PM Post #78
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Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Regardless of if they are teens or not, they are still young... From the article below.

Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over.







Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2012

In 2012, 75.3 million workers in the United States age 16 and over were paid at hourly rates, representing 59.0 percent of all wage and salary workers.

1 Among those paid by the hour, 1.6 million earned exactly the prevailing federal minimum wage of $7.25 per hour. About 2.0 million had wages below the federal minimum.

2 Together, these 3.6 million workers with wages at or below the federal minimum made up 4.7 percent of all hourly paid workers. Tables 1 through 10 present data on a wide array of demographic and socioeconomic characteristics for hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage. The following are some highlights from the 2012 data.

Minimum wage workers tend to be young. Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up about half of those paid the Federal minimum wage or less. Among employed teenagers paid by the hour, about 21 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 3 percent of workers age 25 and over. (See table 1 and table 7.)

In 2012, 6 percent of women paid hourly rates had wages at or below the prevailing federal minimum, compared with about 3 percent of men. (See table 1.)

About 5 percent of White, Black, and Hispanic or Latino hourly paid workers earned the federal minimum wage or less. Among Asian workers paid at hourly rates, about 3 percent earned the minimum wage or less. (See table 1.)

Among hourly paid workers age 16 and over, about 10 percent of those who had less than a high school diploma earned the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 4 percent of those who had a high school diploma (with no college) and about 2 percent of college graduates. (See table 6.)

Never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely than married workers to earn the federal minimum wage or less (about 8 percent versus about 2 percent). (See table 8.)

About 11 percent of part-time workers (persons who usually work less than 35 hours per week) were paid the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of full-time workers. (See table 1 and table 9.)

By major occupational group, the highest proportion of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage was in service occupations, at about 12 percent. About three-fifths of workers earning the minimum wage or less in 2012 were employed in service occupations, mostly in food preparation and serving related jobs. (See table 4.)

The industry with the highest proportion of workers with hourly wages at or below the federal minimum wage was leisure and hospitality (about 19 percent). About half of all workers paid at or below the federal minimum wage were employed in this industry, the vast majority in restaurants and other food services. For many of these workers, tips and commissions supplement the hourly wages received. (See table 5.)

The states with the highest proportions of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Louisiana, Oklahoma, Texas, and Idaho (all between 7 and 8 percent). The states with the lowest percentages of hourly paid workers earning at or below the federal minimum wage were Alaska, Oregon, California, Montana, and Washington (all under 2 percent). It should be noted that some states have minimum wage laws establishing standards that exceed the federal minimum wage. (See table 2 and table 3.)

The proportion of hourly paid workers earning the prevailing federal minimum wage or less declined from 5.2 percent in 2011 to 4.7 percent in 2012. This remains well below the figure of 13.4 percent in 1979, when data were first collected on a regular basis. (See table 10.)
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM Post #79
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I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.

What the hell was I thinking working 40-50 hrs/week while going to night school? I didn't realize that I didn't need to sacrifice to get somewhere in life. Damn parents!! They taught me wrong!
Edited by IUCOLTFAN, Jul 19 2013, 03:06 PM.
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 03:05 PM Post #80
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Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM
I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.
Who ever said that?
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 19 2013, 03:09 PM Post #81
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM
I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.
Who ever said that?
There are a couple posters implying that you shouldn't have to work 60 hrs/week or have a second job to pay for the things you need/want. I'm just curious as to when this way of thinking started. I worked my ass off to get where I am.
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 03:13 PM Post #82
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Jul 19 2013, 03:09 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 03:05 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM
I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.
Who ever said that?
There are a couple posters implying that you shouldn't have to work 60 hrs/week or have a second job to pay for the things you need/want. I'm just curious as to when this way of thinking started. I worked my ass off to get where I am.
I think we all have.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 03:13 PM Post #83
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eel -- combining your numbers and the one that was cited previously, 12% of minimum wage workers are 16-19, 38% are between 20 and 25, and 50% are over 25.

No one is disputing that minimum wage workers are younger than the working population on average....the point is that the assumption that minimum wage jobs are ones that are manned pretty much by only the young isn't true. You are most certainly looking at 2/3rds of minimum wage workers being over 22.
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Mr Gray Jul 19 2013, 03:17 PM Post #84
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eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 02:45 PM
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Jul 19 2013, 01:54 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 01:08 PM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Teen employment has been dropping steadily since the early 90's. In the late 80's about 60% of the 16-19 year olds were in the workforce. Now it is closer to 33%.
Makes sense, as more jobs are exported globally, more adults take lower-skilled, lower-paying jobs in the US. If fast food companies could find a way to export service jobs, they could probably get that labor in Central America for $1/hr.
It is not just that, we overload our children with homework/sports practices/dance recitals/school functions/etc/etc/etc now
Totally agree with that. There's plenty of kids who's parents still aren't doing those things for them, but overall these activities are way up!!
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 03:21 PM Post #85
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:09 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 03:05 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM
I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.
Who ever said that?
There are a couple posters implying that you shouldn't have to work 60 hrs/week or have a second job to pay for the things you need/want. I'm just curious as to when this way of thinking started. I worked my ass off to get where I am.
Did you ever work 60 hours/week on a minimum wage salary while not living at home and no financial help from anyone else while falling behind on your bills at a rate because 60 hours/week didn't cover them? BTW, did someone co-sign your loan to afford to go to night school because no bank in the world would ever give you a loan because you weren't paying all of your bills and your credit was shot?
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eelbor Jul 19 2013, 03:23 PM Post #86
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Jul 19 2013, 03:13 PM
eel -- combining your numbers and the one that was cited previously, 12% of minimum wage workers are 16-19, 38% are between 20 and 25, and 50% are over 25.

No one is disputing that minimum wage workers are younger than the working population on average....the point is that the assumption that minimum wage jobs are ones that are manned pretty much by only the young isn't true. You are most certainly looking at 2/3rds of minimum wage workers being over 22.
Agreed.

Now, 3.6 million workers were at or below minimum wage in 2012. 2/3rds of these are 22 and over. So we are looking at roughly 2.3 million workers nationwide. Not a huge problem... unless of course you are one of the workers.
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"Liberal, shmiberal. That should be a new word. Shmiberal: one who is assumed liberal, just because he's a professional whiner in the newspaper. If you'll read the subtext for many of those old strips, you'll find the heart of an old-fashioned Libertarian. And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners." - Berkeley Breathed


Meat is Murder. Sweet, delicious murder.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 03:25 PM Post #87
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Mr Gray
Jul 19 2013, 03:17 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 02:45 PM
HoosierLars
Jul 19 2013, 01:54 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 01:08 PM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 12:27 PM
In terms of the statement about "teenagers are taking the jobs that earn minimum wage"......the reality is that 88% of the people in this country earning minimum wage are 20 or older.

http://www.epi.org/publication/snapshot-federal-minimum-wage/
Teen employment has been dropping steadily since the early 90's. In the late 80's about 60% of the 16-19 year olds were in the workforce. Now it is closer to 33%.
Makes sense, as more jobs are exported globally, more adults take lower-skilled, lower-paying jobs in the US. If fast food companies could find a way to export service jobs, they could probably get that labor in Central America for $1/hr.
It is not just that, we overload our children with homework/sports practices/dance recitals/school functions/etc/etc/etc now
Totally agree with that. There's plenty of kids who's parents still aren't doing those things for them, but overall these activities are way up!!
Agree. If there is one thing I would urge every single sports parent in Indiana to do it would be to write the IHSAA and get rid of the bullshit practice they instituted that now only has a one week period where athletes are not to practice/workout with their teams. It has forced kids to commit 51 weeks/year to a sport to just be part of a team. Guess what.....98% of them aren't ever going to be division one players and don't need to make that commitment, but now it is set up so that if a school wants to be competitive they have to have their athletes commit 51 weeks/year to do it.
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brumdog44 Jul 19 2013, 03:28 PM Post #88
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eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 03:23 PM
brumdog44
Jul 19 2013, 03:13 PM
eel -- combining your numbers and the one that was cited previously, 12% of minimum wage workers are 16-19, 38% are between 20 and 25, and 50% are over 25.

No one is disputing that minimum wage workers are younger than the working population on average....the point is that the assumption that minimum wage jobs are ones that are manned pretty much by only the young isn't true. You are most certainly looking at 2/3rds of minimum wage workers being over 22.
Agreed.

Now, 3.6 million workers were at or below minimum wage in 2012. 2/3rds of these are 22 and over. So we are looking at roughly 2.3 million workers nationwide. Not a huge problem... unless of course you are one of the workers.
And there are millions more not working because there basically isn't an incentive to do so and are eligible for government aid. So it really affects more than those 2.3 million....it affects anyone paying taxes on those who do not see an incentive to work because the only available jobs are minimum wage ones.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 19 2013, 03:38 PM Post #89
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Jul 19 2013, 03:21 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:09 PM
eelbor
Jul 19 2013, 03:05 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 19 2013, 03:04 PM
I didn't realize that it was my responsibility to make sure that every high school drop out has similar living arrangements and transportation as me....

God forbid anyone having to work more than 40 hours to have a nice life.
Who ever said that?
There are a couple posters implying that you shouldn't have to work 60 hrs/week or have a second job to pay for the things you need/want. I'm just curious as to when this way of thinking started. I worked my ass off to get where I am.
Did you ever work 60 hours/week on a minimum wage salary while not living at home and no financial help from anyone else while falling behind on your bills at a rate because 60 hours/week didn't cover them? BTW, did someone co-sign your loan to afford to go to night school because no bank in the world would ever give you a loan because you weren't paying all of your bills and your credit was shot?
Nope. Worked a job. Went to school. Moved out on my own at 20 making $8/hour. Had a kid at 24. Was definitely behind on some bills at times. Raised a kid by myself while making $10/hour and supporting my own household (it wasn't much but it was mine). Took the kid to a sitter every morning. Worked anywhere from 8-12 hours/ day, sometimes more (depending on season and business). Came home every night to feed and bath a kid. Later on those nights included homework and running around for sports pretty much nightly. It took 20 years to get where I am today. I worked my ass off, I struggled, I persevered.

I have no problem with others needing help. My point is that it can be done, I'm proof. I started with nothing, faced some difficult times, and am hear to tell about it. It can be done. If most spent as much time bettering themselves as they do bitching about how bad they have it, we'd all be better off.
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dreachon Jul 19 2013, 03:45 PM Post #90
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You took the kid to a sitter every day? How much did you pay the sitter?
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