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New warming data
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2013, 06:11 AM (233 Views)
IUCOLTFAN Jul 24 2013, 02:46 PM Post #16
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brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 01:42 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 10:58 AM
There is no way to know what the effects will be when you don't really know what the problem is to begin with
Increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere to begin with.

Are you suggesting that there are no inheriant problems with high levels of air pollution?
No. I'm saying this has been going on longer than we have been dumping mass pollutants in the air. I think we are a very small factor. I think Mother Earth is doing the majority of it on her own.
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brumdog44 Jul 24 2013, 02:50 PM Post #17
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Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:25 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 10:38 AM
Anyway, as you said this is an incredibly long term concept. We don't know exactly what the effects will be but I certainly don't believe that it is to be considered a 'population control' measure.
I'm not saying to use it as population control...I'm just saying that is how it works when resources are over-consumed or become scarce for another reason related to the growth of population....which would certainly apply to carbon dioxide disbursement.
Wow.
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Mr Gray Jul 24 2013, 02:51 PM Post #18
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brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 02:50 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:25 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 10:38 AM
Anyway, as you said this is an incredibly long term concept. We don't know exactly what the effects will be but I certainly don't believe that it is to be considered a 'population control' measure.
I'm not saying to use it as population control...I'm just saying that is how it works when resources are over-consumed or become scarce for another reason related to the growth of population....which would certainly apply to carbon dioxide disbursement.
Wow.
? Really ? You were unaware that resources decrease as they are consumed or otherwise destroyed?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 24 2013, 02:54 PM Post #19
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Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:51 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 02:50 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:25 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 10:38 AM
Anyway, as you said this is an incredibly long term concept. We don't know exactly what the effects will be but I certainly don't believe that it is to be considered a 'population control' measure.
I'm not saying to use it as population control...I'm just saying that is how it works when resources are over-consumed or become scarce for another reason related to the growth of population....which would certainly apply to carbon dioxide disbursement.
Wow.
? Really ? You were unaware that resources decrease as they are consumed or otherwise destroyed?
That has nothing to do with my wow.

I'll let others chime in.
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Mr Gray Jul 24 2013, 02:59 PM Post #20
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brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 02:54 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:51 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 02:50 PM
Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 02:25 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 10:38 AM
Anyway, as you said this is an incredibly long term concept. We don't know exactly what the effects will be but I certainly don't believe that it is to be considered a 'population control' measure.
I'm not saying to use it as population control...I'm just saying that is how it works when resources are over-consumed or become scarce for another reason related to the growth of population....which would certainly apply to carbon dioxide disbursement.
Wow.
? Really ? You were unaware that resources decrease as they are consumed or otherwise destroyed?
That has nothing to do with my wow.

I'll let others chime in.
enlighten us brum
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jul 24 2013, 03:04 PM Post #21
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I'm not sure why we should wait until resource scarcity diminishes our population to do anything. Even if you wholheartedly believe global warming is a figment of the liberal imagination, the other benefits of "going green" make this a no brainer. The idea that we should just sit around until we collapse on ourselves seems incredibly short-sighted and selfish.
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Mr Gray Jul 24 2013, 03:08 PM Post #22
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dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:04 PM
I'm not sure why we should wait until resource scarcity diminishes our population to do anything. Even if you wholheartedly believe global warming is a figment of the liberal imagination, the other benefits of "going green" make this a no brainer. The idea that we should just sit around until we collapse on ourselves seems incredibly short-sighted and selfish.
you do not "wait until resource scarcity diminishes our population" dreach....it is a constant process.....you don't just wait and then all of a sudden start diminishing the population.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jul 24 2013, 03:11 PM Post #23
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Mr Gray
Jul 24 2013, 03:08 PM
dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:04 PM
I'm not sure why we should wait until resource scarcity diminishes our population to do anything. Even if you wholheartedly believe global warming is a figment of the liberal imagination, the other benefits of "going green" make this a no brainer. The idea that we should just sit around until we collapse on ourselves seems incredibly short-sighted and selfish.
you do not "wait until resource scarcity diminishes our population" dreach....it is a constant process.....you don't just wait and then all of a sudden start diminishing the population.
Is resource scarcity holding our population in check now? No. Will it eventually? Yes. That means at some point it starts to diminish our population. It may be constant process but it has to start somewhere.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM Post #24
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Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
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dreachon Jul 24 2013, 03:21 PM Post #25
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM
Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
I'm not sure where I ever said it shouldn't be done smartly. But it does seem to me that some people are so put off by the global warming argument that they refuse to consider any measures aimed at making us more sustainable. Obviously, I think that's an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 24 2013, 03:36 PM Post #26
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dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:21 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM
Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
I'm not sure where I ever said it shouldn't be done smartly. But it does seem to me that some people are so put off by the global warming argument that they refuse to consider any measures aimed at making us more sustainable. Obviously, I think that's an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
I'm fine with making us sustainable but making gas $10/gallon and doubling my electric bill will not get us there any sooner. When the technology gets us to that point it will be a no-brainer. But hammering people before there is a legit alternative is asinine. We want the world to get better and move forward not move backwards. Make small incremental changes to get us moving in the right direction until we get to where we want to be. It took decades to get to this point, it's not gonna be fixed overnight by killing the economy. Close some coal burning plants as you open new nuclear plants.....not decades before. We need to invest in things that make sense, not invest in political bullshit like Solyndra. That's the shit that kills any credibility the issue offers....most people realize the money will be squandered and we will still be having the same conversation 20 yrs from now. You can thank Washington and all their cronies for that.
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brumdog44 Jul 24 2013, 06:49 PM Post #27
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:36 PM
dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:21 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM
Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
I'm not sure where I ever said it shouldn't be done smartly. But it does seem to me that some people are so put off by the global warming argument that they refuse to consider any measures aimed at making us more sustainable. Obviously, I think that's an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
I'm fine with making us sustainable but making gas $10/gallon and doubling my electric bill will not get us there any sooner. When the technology gets us to that point it will be a no-brainer. But hammering people before there is a legit alternative is asinine. We want the world to get better and move forward not move backwards. Make small incremental changes to get us moving in the right direction until we get to where we want to be. It took decades to get to this point, it's not gonna be fixed overnight by killing the economy. Close some coal burning plants as you open new nuclear plants.....not decades before. We need to invest in things that make sense, not invest in political bullshit like Solyndra. That's the shit that kills any credibility the issue offers....most people realize the money will be squandered and we will still be having the same conversation 20 yrs from now. You can thank Washington and all their cronies for that.
Can we seriously stop with the $10/gallon of gas analogy. You were the same person who less than a year ago said we would NEVER see gas under $3.50 again.
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 24 2013, 09:17 PM Post #28
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brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 06:49 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:36 PM
dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:21 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM
Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
I'm not sure where I ever said it shouldn't be done smartly. But it does seem to me that some people are so put off by the global warming argument that they refuse to consider any measures aimed at making us more sustainable. Obviously, I think that's an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
I'm fine with making us sustainable but making gas $10/gallon and doubling my electric bill will not get us there any sooner. When the technology gets us to that point it will be a no-brainer. But hammering people before there is a legit alternative is asinine. We want the world to get better and move forward not move backwards. Make small incremental changes to get us moving in the right direction until we get to where we want to be. It took decades to get to this point, it's not gonna be fixed overnight by killing the economy. Close some coal burning plants as you open new nuclear plants.....not decades before. We need to invest in things that make sense, not invest in political bullshit like Solyndra. That's the shit that kills any credibility the issue offers....most people realize the money will be squandered and we will still be having the same conversation 20 yrs from now. You can thank Washington and all their cronies for that.
Can we seriously stop with the $10/gallon of gas analogy. You were the same person who less than a year ago said we would NEVER see gas under $3.50 again.
The price has doubled in the last 4-5 years.
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brumdog44 Jul 24 2013, 09:56 PM Post #29
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IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 09:17 PM
brumdog44
Jul 24 2013, 06:49 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:36 PM
dreachon
Jul 24 2013, 03:21 PM
IUCOLTFAN
Jul 24 2013, 03:13 PM
Dreach, who said that?

My point (and maybe someone else's) is that we should clean up our act but not in a way that has immediate negative impact on our way of life. Eliminating coal power/production and taxing/regulating/not drilling our way to $8-10 per gallon fuel will be a huge shock to the system and disproportionately hurt the poor. Higher energy, food, and transportation is not gonna be good considering the situation our economy is in. Do you think gas doubling in price over the last few years has been good for our economy?

This should be done surgically and smartly, not by throwing darts at a board.
I'm not sure where I ever said it shouldn't be done smartly. But it does seem to me that some people are so put off by the global warming argument that they refuse to consider any measures aimed at making us more sustainable. Obviously, I think that's an incredibly narrow view of the situation.
I'm fine with making us sustainable but making gas $10/gallon and doubling my electric bill will not get us there any sooner. When the technology gets us to that point it will be a no-brainer. But hammering people before there is a legit alternative is asinine. We want the world to get better and move forward not move backwards. Make small incremental changes to get us moving in the right direction until we get to where we want to be. It took decades to get to this point, it's not gonna be fixed overnight by killing the economy. Close some coal burning plants as you open new nuclear plants.....not decades before. We need to invest in things that make sense, not invest in political bullshit like Solyndra. That's the shit that kills any credibility the issue offers....most people realize the money will be squandered and we will still be having the same conversation 20 yrs from now. You can thank Washington and all their cronies for that.
Can we seriously stop with the $10/gallon of gas analogy. You were the same person who less than a year ago said we would NEVER see gas under $3.50 again.
The price has doubled in the last 4-5 years.
Only after the price of gas cut in more than half during a four month period in 2008.

Our highest national gas price occurred in 2008 as well at an average of $4.12. It has not reached that level since.

http://gasbuddy.com/gb_retail_price_chart.aspx
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IUCOLTFAN Jul 25 2013, 06:46 AM Post #30
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I drive 30,000+ miles/year. I understand what the price of fuel does to my budget.
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