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Unions sick of ObamaCare
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM (564 Views)
HoosierLars Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM Post #1
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http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
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IUCOLTFAN Sep 12 2013, 01:05 PM Post #2
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I'm sure they will get their waiver. This law was for the "rich", legal, non-union, non-federally employed citizen. Remember, we had to pass it before we could find out all the great things in it. We needed 2000+ pages plus another 700+ pages of added regulations to cover pre-existing conditions, lift benefit caps, and cover our 26 yr old children. It all makes perfect sense. It's just a shame that there will still be 30 million uninsured Americans....I guess that is as close as we could get to getting "every American health coverage".
Edited by IUCOLTFAN, Sep 12 2013, 01:07 PM.
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IUCOLTFAN Oct 18 2013, 06:38 AM Post #3
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obamacare-website-violates-licensing-agreement-copyrighted-software_763666.html


Our government at work. Amazing....they can't even follow copyright laws. It's amazing that some people think they are qualified to run your healthcare and safeguard your personal info.....get real.
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brumdog44 Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM Post #4
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HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
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HoosierLars Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM Post #5
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brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
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brumdog44 Oct 18 2013, 10:50 PM Post #6
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HoosierLars
Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
I know on our end -- corporation where there are probably like 250 insurance policies, the increase in insurance rates has been consistently around the 12% mark per year over the past ten years. We've changed insurance companies a couple of times as we have shopped around as well, but typically that is the increase that ends up being settled on. Because of the increases, to control costs the coverage has changed a couple of times so that our out of pocket has increased.

My point has nothing to do with the ACA; just saying that health care costs have been spiraling out of control for quite some time.
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Mr Gray Oct 19 2013, 06:01 AM Post #7
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brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 10:50 PM
HoosierLars
Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
I know on our end -- corporation where there are probably like 250 insurance policies, the increase in insurance rates has been consistently around the 12% mark per year over the past ten years. We've changed insurance companies a couple of times as we have shopped around as well, but typically that is the increase that ends up being settled on. Because of the increases, to control costs the coverage has changed a couple of times so that our out of pocket has increased.

My point has nothing to do with the ACA; just saying that health care costs have been spiraling out of control for quite some time.
Why do you think healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control and what do you think is the solution? I can never understand why someone thinks that forcing one person to pay another person's bill is considered "controlling costs".
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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IUCOLTFAN Oct 19 2013, 07:52 AM Post #8
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Mr Gray
Oct 19 2013, 06:01 AM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 10:50 PM
HoosierLars
Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
I know on our end -- corporation where there are probably like 250 insurance policies, the increase in insurance rates has been consistently around the 12% mark per year over the past ten years. We've changed insurance companies a couple of times as we have shopped around as well, but typically that is the increase that ends up being settled on. Because of the increases, to control costs the coverage has changed a couple of times so that our out of pocket has increased.

My point has nothing to do with the ACA; just saying that health care costs have been spiraling out of control for quite some time.
Why do you think healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control and what do you think is the solution? I can never understand why someone thinks that forcing one person to pay another person's bill is considered "controlling costs".
It's not, but that's what needs to be said to "win". It's all about the campaign and the speech, not the actual outcome.
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brumdog44 Oct 19 2013, 01:04 PM Post #9
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Mr Gray
Oct 19 2013, 06:01 AM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 10:50 PM
HoosierLars
Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
I know on our end -- corporation where there are probably like 250 insurance policies, the increase in insurance rates has been consistently around the 12% mark per year over the past ten years. We've changed insurance companies a couple of times as we have shopped around as well, but typically that is the increase that ends up being settled on. Because of the increases, to control costs the coverage has changed a couple of times so that our out of pocket has increased.

My point has nothing to do with the ACA; just saying that health care costs have been spiraling out of control for quite some time.
Why do you think healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control and what do you think is the solution? I can never understand why someone thinks that forcing one person to pay another person's bill is considered "controlling costs".
Ummmm......those of on us insurance HAVE been forced to pay the medical bills for those who don't have insurance for a long, long time. I guess I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Secondly, this has always been the case.

The biggest issue, IMO, is that regardless of the ACA or not having the ACA, the health care costs we incur in this country is well beyond what other countries are spending.

Posted Image

Some of these countries have national health care....the degree to which they do varies. By regardless of the system, their cost/person is way, way less than ours. Why is that? I think a big contributing factor are the pharaceutical costs have become well out of control.....the copyright laws on these are way too long to create monopolies. In other countries, we do see other companies sell the same basic product because they know that it's not worth the American companie's time and money to go after them in an international court of law.
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Mr Gray Oct 19 2013, 03:41 PM Post #10
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brumdog44
Oct 19 2013, 01:04 PM
Mr Gray
Oct 19 2013, 06:01 AM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 10:50 PM
HoosierLars
Oct 18 2013, 05:36 PM
brumdog44
Oct 18 2013, 04:27 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 12 2013, 09:14 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/12/afl-cio-steps-up-pressure-on-white-house-for-obamacare-changes/
The AFL-CIO approved a resolution saying that President Obama's health care overhaul will drive up the costs of union-sponsored health plans to the point that workers and employers are forced to abandon them.
Just curious, Lars...how privy are you to your company's insurance costs? I am on my corporation's insurance committee and know details on the costs of insurance that we are receiving.

This is not meant as a jab, just asking.
Well :fuckyou: :pissed:

:P Seriously, I work for a small company, and we are always shopping around for better deals. I'll ask and see what I can find out about changes in cost.
I know on our end -- corporation where there are probably like 250 insurance policies, the increase in insurance rates has been consistently around the 12% mark per year over the past ten years. We've changed insurance companies a couple of times as we have shopped around as well, but typically that is the increase that ends up being settled on. Because of the increases, to control costs the coverage has changed a couple of times so that our out of pocket has increased.

My point has nothing to do with the ACA; just saying that health care costs have been spiraling out of control for quite some time.
Why do you think healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control and what do you think is the solution? I can never understand why someone thinks that forcing one person to pay another person's bill is considered "controlling costs".
Ummmm......those of on us insurance HAVE been forced to pay the medical bills for those who don't have insurance for a long, long time. I guess I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Secondly, this has always been the case.

The biggest issue, IMO, is that regardless of the ACA or not having the ACA, the health care costs we incur in this country is well beyond what other countries are spending.

Posted Image

Some of these countries have national health care....the degree to which they do varies. By regardless of the system, their cost/person is way, way less than ours. Why is that? I think a big contributing factor are the pharaceutical costs have become well out of control.....the copyright laws on these are way too long to create monopolies. In other countries, we do see other companies sell the same basic product because they know that it's not worth the American companie's time and money to go after them in an international court of law.
I agree that pharm costs are high. How do we continue to create good medicine without the profits that accompany copyrights and patents on the products? It's easy for other countries to charge less when their R&D costs are fractions of ours because all they have to do is copy our work.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Oct 19 2013, 03:52 PM Post #11
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Agree, which is where that problem exists. I don't know the answer, other than to put pressure on the international courts.
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Mr Gray Oct 20 2013, 08:54 AM Post #12
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Oct 19 2013, 03:52 PM
Agree, which is where that problem exists. I don't know the answer, other than to put pressure on the international courts.
So do you agree that socializing healthcare doesn't actually lower or control costs?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Oct 20 2013, 09:43 AM Post #13
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Mr Gray
Oct 20 2013, 08:54 AM
brumdog44
Oct 19 2013, 03:52 PM
Agree, which is where that problem exists. I don't know the answer, other than to put pressure on the international courts.
So do you agree that socializing healthcare doesn't actually lower or control costs?
Talk about going trying to go from point A to point Z.....

Anyway, even if it didn't I believe it is wrong to be able to deny health care. And, seriously, while you may disagree with it, I don't know why you recognize someone willing to shut down the government in an obviously failed strategy to stop a law on the books as an ethical move while someone who feels that health care should be a basic human right isn't an ethical stand. That statement has nothing to do with what you personally ethically believe but rather viewing them as ethical stands.
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Mr Gray Oct 22 2013, 09:04 AM Post #14
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Oct 20 2013, 09:43 AM
Mr Gray
Oct 20 2013, 08:54 AM
brumdog44
Oct 19 2013, 03:52 PM
Agree, which is where that problem exists. I don't know the answer, other than to put pressure on the international courts.
So do you agree that socializing healthcare doesn't actually lower or control costs?
Talk about going trying to go from point A to point Z.....

Anyway, even if it didn't I believe it is wrong to be able to deny health care. And, seriously, while you may disagree with it, I don't know why you recognize someone willing to shut down the government in an obviously failed strategy to stop a law on the books as an ethical move while someone who feels that health care should be a basic human right isn't an ethical stand. That statement has nothing to do with what you personally ethically believe but rather viewing them as ethical stands.
not sure why you view this as a disconnected comment...I replied to your post that healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control by asking what you think caused it and commenting that socializing healthcare doesn't actually control costs. You replied accurately about pharm costs being a big cause of the increases. Socializing healthcare doesn't address pharm costs, so I'm just trying to confirm that you agree that socializing medicine doesn't actually decrease or control the costs. You seem afraid to answer that question for some reason.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Oct 22 2013, 03:54 PM Post #15
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Mr Gray
Oct 22 2013, 09:04 AM
brumdog44
Oct 20 2013, 09:43 AM
Mr Gray
Oct 20 2013, 08:54 AM
brumdog44
Oct 19 2013, 03:52 PM
Agree, which is where that problem exists. I don't know the answer, other than to put pressure on the international courts.
So do you agree that socializing healthcare doesn't actually lower or control costs?
Talk about going trying to go from point A to point Z.....

Anyway, even if it didn't I believe it is wrong to be able to deny health care. And, seriously, while you may disagree with it, I don't know why you recognize someone willing to shut down the government in an obviously failed strategy to stop a law on the books as an ethical move while someone who feels that health care should be a basic human right isn't an ethical stand. That statement has nothing to do with what you personally ethically believe but rather viewing them as ethical stands.
not sure why you view this as a disconnected comment...I replied to your post that healthcare costs have been spiraling out of control by asking what you think caused it and commenting that socializing healthcare doesn't actually control costs. You replied accurately about pharm costs being a big cause of the increases. Socializing healthcare doesn't address pharm costs, so I'm just trying to confirm that you agree that socializing medicine doesn't actually decrease or control the costs. You seem afraid to answer that question for some reason.
My answer is I don't have any idea how it will affect healthcare costs. I'm not trying to dodge it....I simply have no idea. That was never the reason for my support of Obamacare.

I know you agree that ethical stands should be taken on some issues, and this is one that I think ethically people should have healthcare services without being denied coverage because of preexisting conditions. If that means my rates go up to partially pay for that, I'm fine with it. I'm also fine with mandating insurance or paying a fine because I do feel that it's not ethical for someone who has the ability to pay for insurance to not do so and expect others to pick up the tab should they come down with cancer or have some other calamity occur.
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