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Wisconsin teachers union decertified; FDR was right
Tweet Topic Started: Sep 14 2013, 09:39 AM (147 Views)
HoosierLars Sep 14 2013, 09:39 AM Post #1
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Public sector unions are a conflict of interest, and inherently lead to corruption and epic fail. Good to see Wisconsin is making more progress in this area.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/wisconsin-teachers-union-decertified-in-latest-blow-to-labor-under-walker-law/
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brumdog44 Sep 14 2013, 10:00 AM Post #2
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HoosierLars
Sep 14 2013, 09:39 AM
Public sector unions are a conflict of interest, and inherently lead to corruption and epic fail. Good to see Wisconsin is making more progress in this area.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/14/wisconsin-teachers-union-decertified-in-latest-blow-to-labor-under-walker-law/
Bullshit. They decertified because the Wisconsin legislature took away anything that could bargain for not because of 'corruption and epic fail'. For corruption and epic fails on education, see Tony Bennett.
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HoosierLars Sep 14 2013, 10:10 AM Post #3
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Public employees and unions take money from the public, and then give it to politicians in return for favors. In return, those politicians give more money to the public employees. Please explain how that is not corrupt. If government is in fact benevolent, and acts fairly, it will provide fair salaries and benefits to public workers without the need for public unions.
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brumdog44 Sep 14 2013, 10:55 AM Post #4
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HoosierLars
Sep 14 2013, 10:10 AM
Public employees and unions take money from the public, and then give it to politicians in return for favors. In return, those politicians give more money to the public employees. Please explain how that is not corrupt. If government is in fact benevolent, and acts fairly, it will provide fair salaries and benefits to public workers without the need for public unions.
I'm glad that you are for taking away the ability of me to do with my money what I wish to do by joining a union. Teacher salaries have come nowhere NEAR keeping up with cost of living, so your whole 'corruption' angle seems pretty weak.
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Mr Gray Sep 16 2013, 03:38 PM Post #5
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brumdog44
Sep 14 2013, 10:55 AM
HoosierLars
Sep 14 2013, 10:10 AM
Public employees and unions take money from the public, and then give it to politicians in return for favors. In return, those politicians give more money to the public employees. Please explain how that is not corrupt. If government is in fact benevolent, and acts fairly, it will provide fair salaries and benefits to public workers without the need for public unions.
I'm glad that you are for taking away the ability of me to do with my money what I wish to do by joining a union. Teacher salaries have come nowhere NEAR keeping up with cost of living, so your whole 'corruption' angle seems pretty weak.
brum, whether or not it is resulting in a big problem is up for debate, but you have to admit that there is an inherent problem with a large group of people pooling their money together to give it to the person who will then have the power to take from others and give it back to them. This happens in the private sector also (see G.E.) and I don't like that either.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Sep 16 2013, 06:32 PM Post #6
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Mr Gray
Sep 16 2013, 03:38 PM
brumdog44
Sep 14 2013, 10:55 AM
HoosierLars
Sep 14 2013, 10:10 AM
Public employees and unions take money from the public, and then give it to politicians in return for favors. In return, those politicians give more money to the public employees. Please explain how that is not corrupt. If government is in fact benevolent, and acts fairly, it will provide fair salaries and benefits to public workers without the need for public unions.
I'm glad that you are for taking away the ability of me to do with my money what I wish to do by joining a union. Teacher salaries have come nowhere NEAR keeping up with cost of living, so your whole 'corruption' angle seems pretty weak.
brum, whether or not it is resulting in a big problem is up for debate, but you have to admit that there is an inherent problem with a large group of people pooling their money together to give it to the person who will then have the power to take from others and give it back to them. This happens in the private sector also (see G.E.) and I don't like that either.
Also, I forgot to mention that the public unions often have a monopoly, and that gives them an unfair advantage to set their compensation artificially high. In the case of teachers, it's politically correct to answer "yes" when asked if teachers are underpaid. In an unfettered free enterprise market that is operating efficiently, one never needs to ask if anyone is under or over paid, as the market sets the correct price.
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sirbrianwilson Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM Post #7
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If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
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HoosierLars Sep 16 2013, 07:29 PM Post #8
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sirbrianwilson
Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM
If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
Are you saying that without unions, workers will always be underpaid?

In the case of public unions, fair, benevolent government workers are in charge, and they should be trusted to provide adequate compensation. Why should public workers who have job security and a monopoly, be able to strike for higher wages? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
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brumdog44 Sep 16 2013, 10:16 PM Post #9
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Mr Gray
Sep 16 2013, 03:38 PM
brumdog44
Sep 14 2013, 10:55 AM
HoosierLars
Sep 14 2013, 10:10 AM
Public employees and unions take money from the public, and then give it to politicians in return for favors. In return, those politicians give more money to the public employees. Please explain how that is not corrupt. If government is in fact benevolent, and acts fairly, it will provide fair salaries and benefits to public workers without the need for public unions.
I'm glad that you are for taking away the ability of me to do with my money what I wish to do by joining a union. Teacher salaries have come nowhere NEAR keeping up with cost of living, so your whole 'corruption' angle seems pretty weak.
brum, whether or not it is resulting in a big problem is up for debate, but you have to admit that there is an inherent problem with a large group of people pooling their money together to give it to the person who will then have the power to take from others and give it back to them. This happens in the private sector also (see G.E.) and I don't like that either.
Know how much of my union dues goes toward political activities? $24. Legally the money that goes from lie items titled union dues can NOT go to political activity. There is a separate lie item for that -- the PAC -- for political activities. And that $24, by law, can not be a mandatory deduction for me,bers of the union....any member may sign a waiver and for them it will not be deducted. I know many members in my association that do not.

Secondly, the Supreme Court already allows corporations to donate pretty much without limit to political campaigns.....I dare you to say that special interest groups haven't benefitted much, much more than than teachers ever could. If we were reaping those benefits, then you would have seen teacher salaries keep up with te rates of increase of other jobs over the last 25 years or so.....but they haven't.
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brumdog44 Sep 16 2013, 10:21 PM Post #10
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HoosierLars
Sep 16 2013, 07:29 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM
If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
Are you saying that without unions, workers will always be underpaid?

In the case of public unions, fair, benevolent government workers are in charge, and they should be trusted to provide adequate compensation. Why should public workers who have job security and a monopoly, be able to strike for higher wages? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
So you believe that the government is fair and benevolent? I guess I missed that post somewhere among your rhetorical Obama is Adolf Stalin posts.
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HoosierLars Sep 17 2013, 12:23 AM Post #11
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brumdog44
Sep 16 2013, 10:21 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 16 2013, 07:29 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM
If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
Are you saying that without unions, workers will always be underpaid?

In the case of public unions, fair, benevolent government workers are in charge, and they should be trusted to provide adequate compensation. Why should public workers who have job security and a monopoly, be able to strike for higher wages? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
So you believe that the government is fair and benevolent? I guess I missed that post somewhere among your rhetorical Obama is Adolf Stalin posts.
No I don't. I believe that the same human tendencies that can lead to greedy, incompetent, corrupt corporations also leads to greedy, incompetent, corrupt governments. Big government advocates like you and Brian must believe they operate in a fare, benevolent manner.
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brumdog44 Sep 17 2013, 04:12 PM Post #12
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HoosierLars
Sep 17 2013, 12:23 AM
brumdog44
Sep 16 2013, 10:21 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 16 2013, 07:29 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM
If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
Are you saying that without unions, workers will always be underpaid?

In the case of public unions, fair, benevolent government workers are in charge, and they should be trusted to provide adequate compensation. Why should public workers who have job security and a monopoly, be able to strike for higher wages? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
So you believe that the government is fair and benevolent? I guess I missed that post somewhere among your rhetorical Obama is Adolf Stalin posts.
No I don't. I believe that the same human tendencies that can lead to greedy, incompetent, corrupt corporations also leads to greedy, incompetent, corrupt governments. Big government advocates like you and Brian must believe they operate in a fare, benevolent manner.
I say exactly what I mean. I certainly don't need you to tell me what I mean, especially when it is completely inaccurate.
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HoosierLars Sep 17 2013, 04:25 PM Post #13
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brumdog44
Sep 17 2013, 04:12 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 17 2013, 12:23 AM
brumdog44
Sep 16 2013, 10:21 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 16 2013, 07:29 PM
sirbrianwilson
Sep 16 2013, 07:08 PM
If you want Walmart teachers, that's your thing...

br
Are you saying that without unions, workers will always be underpaid?

In the case of public unions, fair, benevolent government workers are in charge, and they should be trusted to provide adequate compensation. Why should public workers who have job security and a monopoly, be able to strike for higher wages? It doesn't make any sense if you think about it.
So you believe that the government is fair and benevolent? I guess I missed that post somewhere among your rhetorical Obama is Adolf Stalin posts.
No I don't. I believe that the same human tendencies that can lead to greedy, incompetent, corrupt corporations also leads to greedy, incompetent, corrupt governments. Big government advocates like you and Brian must believe they operate in a fare, benevolent manner.
I say exactly what I mean. I certainly don't need you to tell me what I mean, especially when it is completely inaccurate.
Ok, then why do liberals constantly talk about how evil big corporations are, but rarely complain about the inefficiencies, fraud, corruption, etc. of big government?

EDIT: Brum, I'm just trying to understand your general position. I've never understood how anyone trusts government more than business, given that a poorly run business will eventually close their doors, and a growing government doesn't seem to have any mechanism to keep it in check.
Edited by HoosierLars, Sep 17 2013, 04:45 PM.
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brumdog44 Sep 17 2013, 06:32 PM Post #14
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Poorly run businesses close their doors? Like banks and car factories?

I guess I should just trust the government's benevolence to bail out businesses when they feel thy should. No, wait, that's you.
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HoosierLars Sep 18 2013, 09:00 AM Post #15
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brumdog44
Sep 17 2013, 06:32 PM
Poorly run businesses close their doors? Like banks and car factories?

I guess I should just trust the government's benevolence to bail out businesses when they feel thy should. No, wait, that's you.
Hundreds of banks have failed in the last few years:
http://www.davemanuel.com/history-of-bank-failures-in-the-united-states.php

The Federal Reserve was intended to be the "lender of last resort" and avoid bank runs. In 2008 we had a global run on the banks, and the potential for cratering the global financial system was real. If you want to use that once in a lifetime event to make your arguments, go ahead.
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