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| The good cops thread | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 3 2014, 01:47 PM (574 Views) | |
| brumdog44 | Dec 13 2014, 11:48 AM Post #16 |
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The guy picked last in gym class
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I get that. But in the case of a stationary target (which is what we see in the video), I believe there is a difference. |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 13 2014, 09:53 PM Post #17 |
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Coach
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Regardless of my stance on capital punishment, I absolutely have a problem with cops taking the life of a person who isn't an immenent danger. It isn't their job to decide whether or not we are better off with them dead. That's a very very scary and dangerous stance. I'm not really sure it applies here though. There is no merit whatsoever to shooting someone in the leg or shoulder or whatever. Rule #1 of firearm use is if the situation requires you to shoot, then you shoot to kill. An injured person can still cause fatal damag very easily. Adrenaline is powerful. |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| brumdog44 | Dec 14 2014, 12:57 AM Post #18 |
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The guy picked last in gym class
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Okay, I can cede that point if that is SOP. I just don't know that was the case....we not what the report says and if he did lunge, then it was called for. If not, then it was not, IMO. |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 14 2014, 04:58 AM Post #19 |
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Coach
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yeah, I agree. I'm thinking, however, that is likely did lunge, because if these cops were just trigger happy, that video would have been a lot shorter. |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| brumdog44 | Dec 14 2014, 06:19 AM Post #20 |
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The guy picked last in gym class
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Could be. But then again, you could say the same for the man who was shot in that the video would be a lot shorter if he had been intent on charging the police. My guess is, though, that the he probably did grab the knife he had put down and then pick it back up and lunge. I thought the police officer who did shoot made a tactical mistake in holstering his gun prior to obtaining the knife. It also appears that he lost sight of the assilant as he looked down in holstering his gun....probably would have been better served in loweing the gun, picking up the knife and then holstering it. But I know it's easier to sit back and make the call and the policeman who fired the shots most likely is trying to think if he could have done things differently. |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 14 2014, 10:38 AM Post #21 |
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Coach
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I would have had him drop the knife on the floor and kick it to me, but you're right....he definitely should not have lowered his guard until he had EVERYTHING under control, which he obviously didn't. I'm not sure that changes the outcome, but maybe. |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| yawnzzz | Dec 14 2014, 07:50 PM Post #22 |
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Coach
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One thing that always has bothered me is police have many less than lethal options, but they regularly get stuck picking one quickly as they enter into a situation with no opportunity to scale down/up, so they almost always go for their pistol. It seems like someone could design a pistol that had a switch similar to a safety that could switch between rubber and normal bullets. |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 14 2014, 08:11 PM Post #23 |
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Coach
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Hmm. It would have to have 2 barrels, and somehow have 2 separate clips. Nothing is impossible but that requires some serious engineering. |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| brumdog44 | Dec 14 2014, 08:18 PM Post #24 |
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The guy picked last in gym class
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But wouldn't that go against what I suggested about the shoot to disable option? It would seem to me that if a real bullet to the leg isn't disabling because of the suspect's adrenaline, getting shot with rubber bullets would have the same effect. |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 14 2014, 09:21 PM Post #25 |
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Coach
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Correct. I assumed he was talking about situations where there was no imminent threat. Edited by Mr Gray, Dec 14 2014, 09:22 PM.
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![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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| brumdog44 | Dec 14 2014, 09:59 PM Post #26 |
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The guy picked last in gym class
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IMO, if the threat is non imminent, I would prefer that the method of subduing not come from a gun which could switch between the two. Seems like human error in switching between them would be a risk.....both when the officer is meaning to disable or kill. Processing that information in the heat of the moment adds another complication to it. |
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| yawnzzz | Dec 14 2014, 11:07 PM Post #27 |
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Coach
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Shooting at limbs is not a realistic option due to the officer's adrenaline (not the suspect's). If you picture the breathing control a sharpshooter has to have to time his shot, then imagine if the exact opposite happened with nervous breathing. The degree of error is wide enough that the torso is the only large enough mass to consistently hit. As far as adding human error with flipping a switch, it doesn't seem to be a problem with the safety. I'd imagine it would be an escalation switch where it always goes from gun pulled, safety off, rubber bullet fired, less-than-lethal off, bullet fired. It's rare that a rubber bullet to the chest wouldn't stop someone in their tracks. Ribs will be broken, and it's not guaranteed someone would survive, but it's much more likely than a normal bullet. With regard to separate barrels and magazines, not so much. Rubber bullets are now manufactured to fit in a standard magazine. You technically can load a Glock with a rubber bullet followed by regular bullets essentially giving you the same thing with all existing technology. |
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| brumdog44 | Dec 15 2014, 12:01 AM Post #28 |
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There are errors, with safeties, though. And I would think adding a third option would increase those even more. Particularly in a case where an officer believes the suspect can be disabling with rubber bullets and it turns out that they can not or the assailant has a deadly weapon that the officer did not see. |
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| sirbrianwilson | Dec 15 2014, 01:46 AM Post #29 |
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Stemlerite
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Set your lasers to stun! ;) |
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| Mr Gray | Dec 15 2014, 07:10 AM Post #30 |
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Coach
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So then you're not talking about the officer choosing between rubber and lead like you said earlier with a switch, because that would indeed require to separate chan wring mechanisms.....clips. Your now talking about making the first bullet always be rubber. That's not a great idea for situations where the first shot must be fatal in order to save lives. Again, not impossible.....they already have double rail clips, but they are designed to alternate walls to give more ammo per clip. Loading rubber into one side and lead into the other could work, but a sophisticated switch would have to be engineered at the top of the clip, stopping one wall from loading into the chamber. |
![]() The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism. | |
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