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Serious Question; Tom Crean
Tweet Topic Started: Dec 29 2015, 10:04 AM (193 Views)
dreachon Dec 30 2015, 12:01 PM Post #16
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brumdog44
Dec 30 2015, 11:33 AM
panchen_lama
Dec 30 2015, 08:43 AM
dreachon
Dec 30 2015, 07:37 AM
panchen_lama
Dec 30 2015, 12:58 AM
it's the mike davis syndrome all over again. he got one team, which wasn't even "his", to the final four..and all of a sudden he's indiana's coach for a decade or what not. the debate about crean should have zero to do with what this team does. we all know what crean can do or feel he is capable of...if you want him, fine...if not, fine. but there is no more empirical evidence necessary.

as with davis, unfortunately i feel the worst thing for the program at this point might be a successful tourney run...
This seems to be the exact opposite of the Mike Davis situation. Crean didn't take over for a legendary coach. He built a program from a pile of shit. If he makes a deep tourney run, it's clearly on his own merit.

You say we all know what Crean is capable of immediately after saying it shouldn't matter what he does this year. I'll assume you don't think he's capable of coaching a championship caliber team (I'm not sure I do either), but what if he does that this year? Should it not matter or were we wrong about what he is capable of? The whole idea that we shouldn't take into account what happens this year seems nonsensical to me.
the issue i have is that people will overvalue the result from this year. and that is nonsensical.
So if the whole point of firing someone is they aren't capable of coaching a championship caliber team and then they do that.....it's overvalued?

My problem is that people get too wrapped up in being right than they do in a team having success. If someone has an opinion of somebody and that person then succeeds, you have two options: 1. give them credit for doing it and accept the possibility that you were wrong or 2. disbelieve reality to fit your previously assumed reality.

I think #2 is a very dangerous position to take.
Exactly. It's my opinion Crean has shown who he is and what he can do and it's time for IU to make a change. But if this team gets their shit together and makes a championship run, then I'll change that opinion. A championship run this year isn't less valuable than one would have been last year or the year before, IMO. It was a disappointing nonconference showing, so it's not like I think that's actually going to happen. But at this moment all accolades are still on the table for this team (Big Ten Championship, BTT Championship, National Championship). There have been far worse teams than this IU squad that have put it all together mid-year.
Edited by dreachon, Dec 30 2015, 12:02 PM.
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panchen_lama Dec 30 2015, 12:45 PM Post #17
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dreachon
Dec 30 2015, 12:01 PM
brumdog44
Dec 30 2015, 11:33 AM
panchen_lama
Dec 30 2015, 08:43 AM
dreachon
Dec 30 2015, 07:37 AM
panchen_lama
Dec 30 2015, 12:58 AM
it's the mike davis syndrome all over again. he got one team, which wasn't even "his", to the final four..and all of a sudden he's indiana's coach for a decade or what not. the debate about crean should have zero to do with what this team does. we all know what crean can do or feel he is capable of...if you want him, fine...if not, fine. but there is no more empirical evidence necessary.

as with davis, unfortunately i feel the worst thing for the program at this point might be a successful tourney run...
This seems to be the exact opposite of the Mike Davis situation. Crean didn't take over for a legendary coach. He built a program from a pile of shit. If he makes a deep tourney run, it's clearly on his own merit.

You say we all know what Crean is capable of immediately after saying it shouldn't matter what he does this year. I'll assume you don't think he's capable of coaching a championship caliber team (I'm not sure I do either), but what if he does that this year? Should it not matter or were we wrong about what he is capable of? The whole idea that we shouldn't take into account what happens this year seems nonsensical to me.
the issue i have is that people will overvalue the result from this year. and that is nonsensical.
So if the whole point of firing someone is they aren't capable of coaching a championship caliber team and then they do that.....it's overvalued?

My problem is that people get too wrapped up in being right than they do in a team having success. If someone has an opinion of somebody and that person then succeeds, you have two options: 1. give them credit for doing it and accept the possibility that you were wrong or 2. disbelieve reality to fit your previously assumed reality.

I think #2 is a very dangerous position to take.
Exactly. It's my opinion Crean has shown who he is and what he can do and it's time for IU to make a change. But if this team gets their shit together and makes a championship run, then I'll change that opinion. A championship run this year isn't less valuable than one would have been last year or the year before, IMO. It was a disappointing nonconference showing, so it's not like I think that's actually going to happen. But at this moment all accolades are still on the table for this team (Big Ten Championship, BTT Championship, National Championship). There have been far worse teams than this IU squad that have put it all together mid-year.
we'll just have to disagree. i think this is an extremely dangerous position.
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