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Mississippi & NC religious freedom laws
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 6 2016, 01:24 PM (2,725 Views)
dreachon Apr 27 2016, 10:08 PM Post #196
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Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 09:49 PM

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Seriously though? This is a ridiculous line of questioning.
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dreachon Apr 27 2016, 10:09 PM Post #197
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Apr 27 2016, 06:32 PM
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Apr 27 2016, 03:56 PM
It violates the equal protection clause because it discriminates against people based on their gender. It also violates an individual's right to privacy by forcing people to out themselves. It violates title IX because public institutions which receive public funds will be discriminating based on gender it also will potentially force people to undergo medical treatment they may not want or even be advised against just to use bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity.

I think the court will strike down the law on all of the above accounts. It is blatantly unconstitutional. And, quite frankly, an embarrassment for our nation. The world is laughing at us.
Every single bit of what you said assumes that someone agrees with your notion that gender is not a physical attribute. The lack of acceptance that it is not universally defined the way you define it is something you have accused others of doing -- not being able to see the point of both sides of the issue. The fact that you say it is 'blatantly unconstitutional' to me says you either underestimate what the term blatant is or the term unconstitutional. It may be ruled unconstitutional but it most definitely is not a slam dunk case.
The reality is that it is really only "blatantly unconstitutional" if it is established that a person who believes they are a women in fact is a women and should be treated as a women regardless of their physical biology. That certainly isn't an established fact even if it feels like it in places like Washington state.
Question. How do you determine if someone is a man or woman? Physical biology? Genetics?
anyone?
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Mr Gray Apr 27 2016, 10:20 PM Post #198
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Apr 27 2016, 10:08 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 09:49 PM

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Seriously though? This is a ridiculous line of questioning.
No it's not in the context that Brian stated that he is ok with people identifying themselves as animals. Is that not also ridiculous then? I want to hear his reasoning since he volunteered the comparison.....not me.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Apr 27 2016, 10:22 PM Post #199
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Apr 27 2016, 06:32 PM
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Apr 27 2016, 03:56 PM
It violates the equal protection clause because it discriminates against people based on their gender. It also violates an individual's right to privacy by forcing people to out themselves. It violates title IX because public institutions which receive public funds will be discriminating based on gender it also will potentially force people to undergo medical treatment they may not want or even be advised against just to use bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity.

I think the court will strike down the law on all of the above accounts. It is blatantly unconstitutional. And, quite frankly, an embarrassment for our nation. The world is laughing at us.
Every single bit of what you said assumes that someone agrees with your notion that gender is not a physical attribute. The lack of acceptance that it is not universally defined the way you define it is something you have accused others of doing -- not being able to see the point of both sides of the issue. The fact that you say it is 'blatantly unconstitutional' to me says you either underestimate what the term blatant is or the term unconstitutional. It may be ruled unconstitutional but it most definitely is not a slam dunk case.
The reality is that it is really only "blatantly unconstitutional" if it is established that a person who believes they are a women in fact is a women and should be treated as a women regardless of their physical biology. That certainly isn't an established fact even if it feels like it in places like Washington state.
Question. How do you determine if someone is a man or woman? Physical biology? Genetics?
anyone?
you have to ask a forum about the difference between a man and a women......and claim that my questions are ridiculous. Just do some research if you really don't know and figure it out for yourself.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Apr 27 2016, 10:34 PM Post #200
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Apr 27 2016, 03:56 PM
It violates the equal protection clause because it discriminates against people based on their gender. It also violates an individual's right to privacy by forcing people to out themselves. It violates title IX because public institutions which receive public funds will be discriminating based on gender it also will potentially force people to undergo medical treatment they may not want or even be advised against just to use bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity.

I think the court will strike down the law on all of the above accounts. It is blatantly unconstitutional. And, quite frankly, an embarrassment for our nation. The world is laughing at us.
Every single bit of what you said assumes that someone agrees with your notion that gender is not a physical attribute. The lack of acceptance that it is not universally defined the way you define it is something you have accused others of doing -- not being able to see the point of both sides of the issue. The fact that you say it is 'blatantly unconstitutional' to me says you either underestimate what the term blatant is or the term unconstitutional. It may be ruled unconstitutional but it most definitely is not a slam dunk case.
The reality is that it is really only "blatantly unconstitutional" if it is established that a person who believes they are a women in fact is a women and should be treated as a women regardless of their physical biology. That certainly isn't an established fact even if it feels like it in places like Washington state.
Question. How do you determine if someone is a man or woman? Physical biology? Genetics?
anyone?
I've given the legal definition of female already.

I don't think any real argument can be made that being transgender (sans operation) can sexually make you the opposite gender (not delving into the rare occurrence of someone born intersex). If gender identification truly made you the opposite sex, there would be no need for anyone to have a sex change operation. The only argument that one can try to make for transgenders using the opposite sex bathroom is not a based on sex. I happen to disagree with this argument.
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boilergrad01 Apr 27 2016, 11:08 PM Post #201
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I wondered off in this thread. When did you change your mind and why?
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dreachon Apr 28 2016, 05:28 AM Post #202
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Apr 27 2016, 09:49 PM

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Seriously though? This is a ridiculous line of questioning.
No it's not in the context that Brian stated that he is ok with people identifying themselves as animals. Is that not also ridiculous then? I want to hear his reasoning since he volunteered the comparison.....not me.
I could really give 2 shits if someone wants to identify as an animal. Doesn't bother me at all. They can identify as a table for all I care. It doesn't mean I believe them.
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dreachon Apr 28 2016, 05:32 AM Post #203
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Apr 27 2016, 06:32 PM
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Apr 27 2016, 03:56 PM
It violates the equal protection clause because it discriminates against people based on their gender. It also violates an individual's right to privacy by forcing people to out themselves. It violates title IX because public institutions which receive public funds will be discriminating based on gender it also will potentially force people to undergo medical treatment they may not want or even be advised against just to use bathroom facilities consistent with their gender identity.

I think the court will strike down the law on all of the above accounts. It is blatantly unconstitutional. And, quite frankly, an embarrassment for our nation. The world is laughing at us.
Every single bit of what you said assumes that someone agrees with your notion that gender is not a physical attribute. The lack of acceptance that it is not universally defined the way you define it is something you have accused others of doing -- not being able to see the point of both sides of the issue. The fact that you say it is 'blatantly unconstitutional' to me says you either underestimate what the term blatant is or the term unconstitutional. It may be ruled unconstitutional but it most definitely is not a slam dunk case.
The reality is that it is really only "blatantly unconstitutional" if it is established that a person who believes they are a women in fact is a women and should be treated as a women regardless of their physical biology. That certainly isn't an established fact even if it feels like it in places like Washington state.
Question. How do you determine if someone is a man or woman? Physical biology? Genetics?
anyone?
you have to ask a forum about the difference between a man and a women......and claim that my questions are ridiculous. Just do some research if you really don't know and figure it out for yourself.
Woah woah woah. This is some serious avoidance here. You stated in your post...

Quote:
 
The reality is that it is really only "blatantly unconstitutional" if it is established that a person who believes they are a women in fact is a women


So I'm asking how you would establish that someone else is a woman. And I included options like genetics or physical biology (a third might be birth certificate designation). This line of questioning isn't ridiculous at all.
Edited by dreachon, Apr 28 2016, 05:33 AM.
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Mr Gray Apr 28 2016, 05:51 AM Post #204
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These are completely different issues. Just as guns and bathrooms are. You would have a more relevant argument if public facilities were still segregated. But we realized that was the wrong thing to do a long time ago. We're catching up in the LGBT world.
No, they are very similar issues. Why is it ok for a man to identify as a woman, but it's not ok for a white woman to identify as a black woman? Somebody must have a way to rationalize this double-standard.
I don't have a problem with somebody identifying as another race. I don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. I do have a problem with unconstitutional, discriminatory, bigoted, and transphobic laws being passed under the false-pretense of "protecting children from sexual predators."

br
You just said that you don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. So are you then ok with that person having the same rights protections and privileges as the animal he identifies as? For example, if I identify as a dog, are you ok with me shitting on the sidewalk or on a park as long as a human picks it up when I'm done? Please answer yes or no and explain.
I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Bump to Brian.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Apr 28 2016, 10:01 AM Post #205
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Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I don't have a problem with somebody identifying as another race. I don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. I do have a problem with unconstitutional, discriminatory, bigoted, and transphobic laws being passed under the false-pretense of "protecting children from sexual predators."

br
You just said that you don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. So are you then ok with that person having the same rights protections and privileges as the animal he identifies as? For example, if I identify as a dog, are you ok with me shitting on the sidewalk or on a park as long as a human picks it up when I'm done? Please answer yes or no and explain.
I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Bump to Brian.
you are a human. species is different than gender identity.

I hope i'm not spoiling your "gotcha!" attempt.

br
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mongo Apr 28 2016, 10:10 AM Post #206
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Apr 25 2016, 08:36 PM
These are completely different issues. Just as guns and bathrooms are. You would have a more relevant argument if public facilities were still segregated. But we realized that was the wrong thing to do a long time ago. We're catching up in the LGBT world.
No, they are very similar issues. Why is it ok for a man to identify as a woman, but it's not ok for a white woman to identify as a black woman? Somebody must have a way to rationalize this double-standard.
I don't have a problem with somebody identifying as another race. I don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. I do have a problem with unconstitutional, discriminatory, bigoted, and transphobic laws being passed under the false-pretense of "protecting children from sexual predators."

br
You just said that you don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. So are you then ok with that person having the same rights protections and privileges as the animal he identifies as? For example, if I identify as a dog, are you ok with me shitting on the sidewalk or on a park as long as a human picks it up when I'm done? Please answer yes or no and explain.
I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
What would be your name if you were a dog?
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Mr Gray Apr 28 2016, 10:15 AM Post #207
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Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
You just said that you don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. So are you then ok with that person having the same rights protections and privileges as the animal he identifies as? For example, if I identify as a dog, are you ok with me shitting on the sidewalk or on a park as long as a human picks it up when I'm done? Please answer yes or no and explain.
I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Bump to Brian.
you are a human. species is different than gender identity.

I hope i'm not spoiling your "gotcha!" attempt.

br
Great. So why specifically am I not to be treated as a dog if I identify myself as a dog?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Apr 28 2016, 10:16 AM Post #208
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Apr 26 2016, 08:56 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I don't have a problem with somebody identifying as another race. I don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. I do have a problem with unconstitutional, discriminatory, bigoted, and transphobic laws being passed under the false-pretense of "protecting children from sexual predators."

br
You just said that you don't have a problem with someone identifying as an animal. So are you then ok with that person having the same rights protections and privileges as the animal he identifies as? For example, if I identify as a dog, are you ok with me shitting on the sidewalk or on a park as long as a human picks it up when I'm done? Please answer yes or no and explain.
I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
What would be your name if you were a dog?
Oooh, good question. I need to think on that. You know what you call a dog with steel balls?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Apr 28 2016, 10:19 AM Post #209
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Apr 28 2016, 05:51 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 09:49 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 08:10 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 07:42 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 07:08 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 07:01 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 06:57 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 06:49 PM

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I wouldn't have a problem with your identity, rather your action. A trans person using the restroom isn't harming anyone. A person shitting on the ground is indecent exposure, public defecation/urination, and vandalism.

Your analogies suck. They are a sign of a weak argument.

Next.
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Bump to Brian.
you are a human. species is different than gender identity.

I hope i'm not spoiling your "gotcha!" attempt.

br
Great. So why specifically am I not to be treated as a dog if I identify myself as a dog?
Because you're a human, not a dog. Gender identification is different than being a species. But I would take you on walks if you'd like and tear up your voter ID (since animals aren't allowed to vote) if it would make you feel better.

br
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Mr Gray Apr 28 2016, 10:21 AM Post #210
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sirbrianwilson
Apr 28 2016, 10:19 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 28 2016, 10:15 AM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 28 2016, 10:01 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 28 2016, 05:51 AM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 09:49 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 08:10 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 07:42 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 07:08 PM
Mr Gray
Apr 27 2016, 07:01 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 27 2016, 06:57 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
So do you consider it to be indecent exposure when a dog shits on the sidewalk?
Is this "gotcha!" Time? No, I don't. They aren't a human. Again, I know modernism is tough for you, but try to follow. I stated I don't care how someone identifies. I care about if people harm each other or are put in positions where harm will come to them. This bill doesn't stop creeps from harming people (it happens already), rather it puts an already vulnerable population in even more danger.

How many trans people have you talked to about this? Really no sense in talking to me, a straight white male. Go getcha some of that culture.

Br
So if I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
I'm ok if someone brings a female dog into the men's room if that's the point you're trying to get at. Continue denying that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. You should attend an LGBT peer support meeting sometime. It's good for straight white people to do. Specifically men.
Wow.....I said nothing of wanting to bring a dog into a bathroom, and I've never denied that trans people are real and that transphobic violence occurs. Here you go again....changing the subject to argue against a narrative that was never even said by me.

So let's see if you can just answer the question. If I identify as a dog, am I also then "not human" or am I still human?
Bump to Brian.
you are a human. species is different than gender identity.

I hope i'm not spoiling your "gotcha!" attempt.

br
Great. So why specifically am I not to be treated as a dog if I identify myself as a dog?
Because you're a human, not a dog. Gender identification is different than being a species. But I would take you on walks if you'd like and tear up your voter ID (since animals aren't allowed to vote) if it would make you feel better.

br
how is it that you determine that I'm a human and not a dog even though I identify as a dog?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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