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Mississippi & NC religious freedom laws
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Topic Started: Apr 6 2016, 01:24 PM (2,720 Views)
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brumdog44
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Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
Post #271
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
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- brumdog44
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 09:29 AM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:47 AM
Brian and dreach, I have a question. In the trans bathroom situation, if a 3rd unisex or family restroom is available, should the trans person have to use that one or should they still be allowed to use the one opposite of their biological gender if that's what they identify with?
Again, I just think people should use whichever bathroom they feel is appropriate at the time. I mentioned I have a daughter. I also have a son. Depending on the situation, I've brought them into the women's restroom before, usually because there's no changing table in a men's restroom.
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways. I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 04:48 PM
Post #272
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
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- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:18 PM
- dreachon
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- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 02:09 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 09:29 AM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:47 AM
Brian and dreach, I have a question. In the trans bathroom situation, if a 3rd unisex or family restroom is available, should the trans person have to use that one or should they still be allowed to use the one opposite of their biological gender if that's what they identify with?
Again, I just think people should use whichever bathroom they feel is appropriate at the time. I mentioned I have a daughter. I also have a son. Depending on the situation, I've brought them into the women's restroom before, usually because there's no changing table in a men's restroom.
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity. Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 04:49 PM
Post #273
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Coach
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- sirbrianwilson
- Apr 30 2016, 02:20 PM
maybe every place should have a bathroom for straight males, gay males, trans, straight females, lesbians, and one for families.
Orrrrrrrr we could just do what we've been doing forever with no incident. So you are opposed to the Charlotte bill?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 04:51 PM
Post #274
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Coach
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- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 11:19 AM
- sirbrianwilson
- Apr 30 2016, 10:52 AM
There are many scenarios where that can out someone when they don't want to be outed.
I'm just not sure what your big concern here is. You've shared a public restroom with trans people for years. Your kids have as well. Your parents have. Why segregate at the expense of trans safety now?
This doesn't address your statement that the unisex single stall door locked bathroom can be unsafe. Please clarify. How are they unsafe or subject to violence in that situation? Bump to Brian.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Apr 30 2016, 05:10 PM
Post #275
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 04:48 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:23 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:18 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:11 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 02:09 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 09:29 AM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:47 AM
Brian and dreach, I have a question. In the trans bathroom situation, if a 3rd unisex or family restroom is available, should the trans person have to use that one or should they still be allowed to use the one opposite of their biological gender if that's what they identify with?
Again, I just think people should use whichever bathroom they feel is appropriate at the time. I mentioned I have a daughter. I also have a son. Depending on the situation, I've brought them into the women's restroom before, usually because there's no changing table in a men's restroom.
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ? Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 05:24 PM
Post #276
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Coach
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- dreachon
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- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:47 AM
Brian and dreach, I have a question. In the trans bathroom situation, if a 3rd unisex or family restroom is available, should the trans person have to use that one or should they still be allowed to use the one opposite of their biological gender if that's what they identify with?
Again, I just think people should use whichever bathroom they feel is appropriate at the time. I mentioned I have a daughter. I also have a son. Depending on the situation, I've brought them into the women's restroom before, usually because there's no changing table in a men's restroom.
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom. ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Apr 30 2016, 06:10 PM
Post #277
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
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- dreachon
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- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 02:09 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 09:29 AM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:47 AM
Brian and dreach, I have a question. In the trans bathroom situation, if a 3rd unisex or family restroom is available, should the trans person have to use that one or should they still be allowed to use the one opposite of their biological gender if that's what they identify with?
Again, I just think people should use whichever bathroom they feel is appropriate at the time. I mentioned I have a daughter. I also have a son. Depending on the situation, I've brought them into the women's restroom before, usually because there's no changing table in a men's restroom.
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say? When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality.
But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 06:28 PM
Post #278
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 06:10 PM
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- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
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- brumdog44
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:11 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 02:09 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 09:29 AM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
The North Carolina law did account for children going into the bathroom of their parent's biological sex. Think is was children 8 and under. I don't know where you've lived, but pretty much every public facility I go to there is either: 1. a changing table in both restrooms 2. a family bathroom that has a changing table. 3. not a changing table in either restroom. I just can't really think of any public facilities that I have been in recently where there was a changing table only available to one sex. That doesn't necessarily hold true for private businesses, but the law in discussion is for public facilities.
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality. But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine. Ok, fair enough. So the same thing then for a high school boy? If he feels more comfortable in the girls bathroom then that's the one he should be allowed to be in at school?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Apr 30 2016, 07:00 PM
Post #279
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 06:28 PM
- dreachon
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- Mr Gray
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 05:10 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 04:48 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:23 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:18 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:11 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 02:09 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I live in Puerto Rico. And I was a stay at home dad for awhile. Lots of places without a changing table in the men's restroom including, funny enough, the local children's museum we're members of. But I def ran into this issue in St. Louis as well. Only point is, as long as people act like adults, it's not an issue. As for trans person in a family restroom, I def would not want to force them into using it. First of all, it's designed for families with small children. If a regular restroom is available, people should use it and keep the family bathroom clear. Second of all, a trans person going into the family restroom alone could certainly draw unwanted attention that they wouldn't receive going into a normal restroom. I don't see any logic in forcing a trans person to use a family restroom.
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality. But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine.
Ok, fair enough. So the same thing then for a high school boy? If he feels more comfortable in the girls bathroom then that's the one he should be allowed to be in at school? He's not an adult. He doesn't get to make that decision. Schools and locker rooms are inherently different situations.
Edited by dreachon, Apr 30 2016, 07:00 PM.
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Mr Gray
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Apr 30 2016, 07:32 PM
Post #280
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- Apr 30 2016, 04:11 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
They aren't forced. Forced would mean that is the only option. It's not. Where are we that providing extra accommodations is now 'forcing'?
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality. But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine.
Ok, fair enough. So the same thing then for a high school boy? If he feels more comfortable in the girls bathroom then that's the one he should be allowed to be in at school?
He's not an adult. He doesn't get to make that decision. Schools and locker rooms are inherently different situations. Why? It's ok to discriminate against him because he's a minor?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Apr 30 2016, 07:53 PM
Post #281
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- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:32 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 07:00 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 06:28 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 06:10 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 05:24 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 05:10 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 04:48 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:23 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:18 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
That was Aarons question. If all three are available should trans people be forced to use the family restroom. That's what I thought he was asking anyways.
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality. But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine.
Ok, fair enough. So the same thing then for a high school boy? If he feels more comfortable in the girls bathroom then that's the one he should be allowed to be in at school?
He's not an adult. He doesn't get to make that decision. Schools and locker rooms are inherently different situations.
Why? It's ok to discriminate against him because he's a minor? Oh look, Aaron playing the "gotcha!" game. Surprise surprise. There are lots of things we don't let children do in our society that would be discrimination if it was an adult. Schools, even public ones, have unique rules. Personally, I'm fine with that most of the time.
And p.s. - let's not forget that your hypothetical situation isn't actually based in reality, as per usual.
Edited by dreachon, Apr 30 2016, 07:54 PM.
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brumdog44
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Apr 30 2016, 10:16 PM
Post #282
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 07:53 PM
Oh look, Aaron playing the "gotcha!" game. Surprise surprise. There are lots of things we don't let children do in our society that would be discrimination if it was an adult. Schools, even public ones, have unique rules. Personally, I'm fine with that most of the time.
And p.s. - let's not forget that your hypothetical situation isn't actually based in reality, as per usual. Just in case you weren't aware, there are at least two cases currently that are in courts that specifically deal with public schools and their bathroom policies and transgender students.
Here is one: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/20/us/appeals-court-favors-transgender-student-in-virginia-restroom-case.html?_r=0
There also are at least two cases dealing with school locker rooms, one at the high school level.
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Mr Gray
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May 1 2016, 06:20 AM
Post #283
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 07:53 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 07:32 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 07:00 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 06:28 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 06:10 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 05:24 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 05:10 PM
- Mr Gray
- Apr 30 2016, 04:48 PM
- brumdog44
- Apr 30 2016, 04:33 PM
- dreachon
- Apr 30 2016, 04:23 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I think the question was about whether they should be allowed to use either the restroom of their physical sex or the unisex bathroom as opposed to their gender identity.
Yes. Dreach, are you with Brian that a person should be able to use the bathroom that they are more comfortable with even if that is the opposite of their biological sex and a unisex bathroom is available ?
Yes. Otherwise we would need a law saying they can't, which I'm against. Though I do think the overwhelming majority of the time, they would choose the unisex bathroom.
ok, so I'm curious. I am a straight white non trans male. Do you give me the same consideration? If I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom, is that where I should be allowed to go? I'm not talking about irregular situations with kids, or elderly, a disgustingly dirty men's restroom or lack of changing tables...etc. just a regular old situation where I need to pee and I determine that I'm more comfortable in the women's restroom. What do you say?
When is this actually a real life situation though? I prefer to deal in reality. But, to answer your question, since I'm against a law telling you that you can't, then sure. There are probably lots of situations where it doesn't say you specifically can't do something but no one actually does because it doesn't make any sense. As long as everyone acts like mature adults. I really don't think there would ever be an issue. You're essentially describing unisex bathrooms, which we know work just fine.
Ok, fair enough. So the same thing then for a high school boy? If he feels more comfortable in the girls bathroom then that's the one he should be allowed to be in at school?
He's not an adult. He doesn't get to make that decision. Schools and locker rooms are inherently different situations.
Why? It's ok to discriminate against him because he's a minor?
Oh look, Aaron playing the "gotcha!" game. Surprise surprise. There are lots of things we don't let children do in our society that would be discrimination if it was an adult. Schools, even public ones, have unique rules. Personally, I'm fine with that most of the time. And p.s. - let's not forget that your hypothetical situation isn't actually based in reality, as per usual. It wasn't "gotcha". It was a real question based in reality. It's happening now and being justified by the same reasoning that you are using. If your going to take the leap from comfort to protected class/discrimination dreach, which you have, then no.....you can't exclude minors. Unless of course it's ok to have high school bathrooms separated for blacks and whites also.
And I see that Brum has posted a link to 2 cases (although you claim it isn't reality), but I am under the impression that there are going to be many many more as schools are now (thank you Charlotte) dealing with this issue and hearing rumblings of it much more.
Even if we took your excuse that minors are allowed to be discriminated against, how about an adult who goes into a school. Happens hundreds of times every day at every school. Can I use the girls bathroom there because it makes me comfortable?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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May 1 2016, 08:01 AM
Post #284
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Creative Title Here
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Oh I realize it's an issue schools are going to have to deal with. But your question was specifically about a boy who is not transgender, does not identify as a woman, and simply wants to go into the women's locker room because that's where he is "most comfortable." Yeah right.
As for how this should be handled in schools with real life kids who are really transgendered, I think the result will vary depending on the child, school, and situation. I believe schools should make concerted effort to accommodate kids when it is necessary and they are able. For some schools, that will be easy. For others maybe not so much. There has to be compromise from the school AND from the transgender student.I don't think there is a singular solution here that can be applied everywhere. And so I'm happy to let the courts deal with these situations when a compromise can seemingly not be reached.
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brumdog44
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May 1 2016, 08:54 AM
Post #285
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
- May 1 2016, 08:01 AM
Oh I realize it's an issue schools are going to have to deal with. But your question was specifically about a boy who is not transgender, does not identify as a woman, and simply wants to go into the women's locker room because that's where he is "most comfortable." Yeah right.
As for how this should be handled in schools with real life kids who are really transgendered, I think the result will vary depending on the child, school, and situation. I believe schools should make concerted effort to accommodate kids when it is necessary and they are able. For some schools, that will be easy. For others maybe not so much. There has to be compromise from the school AND from the transgender student.I don't think there is a singular solution here that can be applied everywhere. And so I'm happy to let the courts deal with these situations when a compromise can seemingly not be reached. As someone who has worked in education all of my life, the scenario he asked about is very real -- removal of an opposite sex member from a bathroom is definitely not a rare occurrence. So the question he is asking is based on what can be done if a student does that and then upon discipline being given out, says that is where he is 'most comfortable'. The law as written doesn't establish guidelines.
In terms of accommodations, if a school provides unisex, single stall bathrooms open to every one, have they met their accommodation responsibility? It would seem to me that is compromise between the school and transgender student.
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