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Mississippi & NC religious freedom laws
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 6 2016, 01:24 PM (2,735 Views)
sirbrianwilson Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM Post #46
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HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
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Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
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dreachon Apr 17 2016, 04:09 AM Post #47
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sirbrianwilson
Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM
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Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Come on, Bri. They wouldn't have to register in some database. Just make them wear a star patch on their upper arm all the time so they can be easily identified.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2016, 08:28 AM Post #48
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Apr 16 2016, 11:32 AM
Ah, the good ole 'they gonna take r guns' argument used by the right on when they don't really have anything of value to add to a conversation. Lovely.


Oh I get it, you're insinuating that people who support the 2nd amendment are less articulate than anti-gun nuts, and therefore probably less intelligent. Good one.
Nice try. I am saying (not insinuating) that people who try to interject 2nd amendment law into conversation that has ZERO to do with it are either being obtuse or flat out stupid. You can take your pick, I don't know what angle degree you are.
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brumdog44 Apr 17 2016, 08:31 AM Post #49
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Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
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Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Or we could employ a state legislative department to overturn a local ordinance and then spend tons of money defending a law that we all know is going to get overturned in the courts. You tell me which is the more realistic scenario.
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Mr Gray Apr 18 2016, 07:23 AM Post #50
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sirbrianwilson
Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Quote:
 
to fight the boogeyman



A sexual predator who falsely claimed to be transgender and preyed on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed indefinitely on Wednesday
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

The NC law has some problems, but there is absolutely merit to protecting children from the sickos (Yes....they are real and widespread) from being able to enter a girls bathroom legally by simply claiming that they identify as female. That is how the original Charlotte law was written, and it's equally if not more ludicrous than the NC law.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Apr 18 2016, 09:28 AM Post #51
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Brian, Dreach, and Brum, here are some students who generally support your position:
You can jump to 55s

[utube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho[/utube]
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brumdog44 Apr 18 2016, 02:47 PM Post #52
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Mr Gray
Apr 18 2016, 07:23 AM
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Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Quote:
 
to fight the boogeyman



A sexual predator who falsely claimed to be transgender and preyed on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed indefinitely on Wednesday
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

The NC law has some problems, but there is absolutely merit to protecting children from the sickos (Yes....they are real and widespread) from being able to enter a girls bathroom legally by simply claiming that they identify as female. That is how the original Charlotte law was written, and it's equally if not more ludicrous than the NC law.
This is the thing, though: you aren't going to convince me that a sexual predator is going to draw the line at entering a bathroom illegally when they aren't drawing the line at their sexual predator actions. It isn't like stories can't be pulled up where women were attacked in a bathroom that was female only. I understand the fear, but I don't know how based in reality it is.

Philadelphia and Portland require that all newly built or renovated public buildings require a gender neutral bathroom. We haven't been hearing of any attacks in those buildings. Europe has a lot of co-ed bathrooms (and showers and saunas to boot) and there are a number of colleges that do so.

The question I have is why is it such a large matter in the United States when it isn't elsewhere? I don't have an answer to that, am just asking.

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brumdog44 Apr 18 2016, 02:49 PM Post #53
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Apr 18 2016, 07:23 AM
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Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM
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Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Quote:
 
to fight the boogeyman



A sexual predator who falsely claimed to be transgender and preyed on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed indefinitely on Wednesday
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

The NC law has some problems, but there is absolutely merit to protecting children from the sickos (Yes....they are real and widespread) from being able to enter a girls bathroom legally by simply claiming that they identify as female. That is how the original Charlotte law was written, and it's equally if not more ludicrous than the NC law.
Anyway, welcome back.
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dreachon Apr 18 2016, 03:11 PM Post #54
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Apr 18 2016, 07:23 AM
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Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Quote:
 
to fight the boogeyman



A sexual predator who falsely claimed to be transgender and preyed on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed indefinitely on Wednesday
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

The NC law has some problems, but there is absolutely merit to protecting children from the sickos (Yes....they are real and widespread) from being able to enter a girls bathroom legally by simply claiming that they identify as female. That is how the original Charlotte law was written, and it's equally if not more ludicrous than the NC law.
He hath risen again!?

While I think the law may be trying to have it's heart in the right place, I simply don't think it has much actual positive impact and instead hurts those who legitimately would use the bathroom of their choice.

To me, I'm fairly astonished so many republicans support this bill. All I see is another unnecessary big government law trying to tell us how we must live our lives. We don't need a law telling people which bathroom they should go in.
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brumdog44 Apr 18 2016, 03:36 PM Post #55
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That's my biggest issue with it as well. I don't understand the state dictating that decision to something that seems like a local decision.
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sirbrianwilson Apr 18 2016, 03:38 PM Post #56
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Because big government is ok when it aligns with their political perspective.

br
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boilergrad01 Apr 18 2016, 11:04 PM Post #57
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Apr 18 2016, 03:36 PM
That's my biggest issue with it as well. I don't understand the state dictating that decision to something that seems like a local decision.
Brum,
NC is different and the state actually owns every county, town and city

It is different from Indiana. Elected municipal officials have little power the town or county manager makes most of the decisions.
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brumdog44 Apr 18 2016, 11:42 PM Post #58
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Apr 18 2016, 11:04 PM
brumdog44
Apr 18 2016, 03:36 PM
That's my biggest issue with it as well. I don't understand the state dictating that decision to something that seems like a local decision.
Brum,
NC is different and the state actually owns every county, town and city

It is different from Indiana. Elected municipal officials have little power the town or county manager makes most of the decisions.
It was not a town or county manager that made the Charlotte decision. That was the elected Charlotte city council. It was also not a town or county manager that made any decision to uphold or overturn their decision. I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make since it seems irrelevant.
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Mr Gray Apr 19 2016, 09:26 AM Post #59
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Apr 18 2016, 02:47 PM
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Apr 18 2016, 07:23 AM
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Apr 17 2016, 02:41 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 11:44 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 16 2016, 11:15 AM
HoosierLars
Apr 16 2016, 10:48 AM
brumdog44
Apr 13 2016, 04:33 PM
boilergrad01
Apr 13 2016, 02:41 PM
sirbrianwilson
Apr 13 2016, 02:16 PM
This bill will pave the path for even more violence against the very vulnerable lgbt community. It will not prevent a sexual predator from abusing women in a restroom.
I do not think we have LGBT violence in NC.
But you also believe that the thing that stops a male sexual predator from going into the women's bathroom is a signed bill from the governor.
And many on the left believe more gun control laws will keep criminals from using guns. It's true that more gun laws make it easier to punish gun offenders more, which is a good thing. Similar to how a law like this can be used to punish male sex-offenders attempting to spy-on or harass women/girls in restrooms/lockers. If a man looks like a woman and uses the woman's restroom without walking around naked, nobody is going to notice or care. Move along folks, there's nothing to see here, but it is a good wedge issue.
Except for that male that looks like a female who uses (and has been using) the women's restroom will now be breaking the law. Which, in a sense, criminalizes sexual orientation.
I see your point. Good laws must take into account many end-cases so they can be implemented fairly. I'd support language that makes it legal for a transgender person to use either bathroom if they have the necessary paper-work. *sigh* I guess this means we need to hire more government workers to manage this...
Now trans people have to register in some database just to use the proper restroom? How is that not discrimination?

We can keep going back and forth, but in the end, this is just s bad law. Quite ill conceived and the wrong means to fight the boogeyman, ahem I mean, the widespread epidemic of dudes walking into women's restrooms under the guise of being trans.
Quote:
 
to fight the boogeyman



A sexual predator who falsely claimed to be transgender and preyed on women at two Toronto shelters was jailed indefinitely on Wednesday
http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/26/predator-who-claimed-to-be-transgender-declared-dangerous-offender

The NC law has some problems, but there is absolutely merit to protecting children from the sickos (Yes....they are real and widespread) from being able to enter a girls bathroom legally by simply claiming that they identify as female. That is how the original Charlotte law was written, and it's equally if not more ludicrous than the NC law.
This is the thing, though: you aren't going to convince me that a sexual predator is going to draw the line at entering a bathroom illegally when they aren't drawing the line at their sexual predator actions. It isn't like stories can't be pulled up where women were attacked in a bathroom that was female only. I understand the fear, but I don't know how based in reality it is.

Philadelphia and Portland require that all newly built or renovated public buildings require a gender neutral bathroom. We haven't been hearing of any attacks in those buildings. Europe has a lot of co-ed bathrooms (and showers and saunas to boot) and there are a number of colleges that do so.

The question I have is why is it such a large matter in the United States when it isn't elsewhere? I don't have an answer to that, am just asking.

brum, we don't hear about perverts going into women's restrooms in areas where it is legal, precisely because there is nothing to report.....it is legal....no crime to report. I don't think it's wise to make it perfectly legal for a pervert or sex offender to go into the women's restroom where mine of your daughter's might be. Attack or not....I don't want them in there, and I'm surprise that you do. There are better solutions than this.....but not if you are ideologically blinded (the reason I left this board to begin with...common sense is gone)
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars Apr 19 2016, 09:32 AM Post #60
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HoosierLars
Apr 18 2016, 09:28 AM
Brian, Dreach, and Brum, here are some students who generally support your position:
You can jump to 55s

[utube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfO1veFs6Ho[/utube]
I think the same guys being critical of the proposed bathroom laws to protect girls/women from predators attacked the white woman who identified with blacks. It looks like these college kids balked a little bit at a 5'-9 white guy identifying as a 6'-5 asian woman, or a 7 year old. So there is currently some limit to how far many people will go to be PC and not offend anyone. I liked the part at the beginning when he told the Asian guy he was a woman, and the guy replied "Really?" Good to know there are a few college kids who haven't been completely PC-ized. Let's stop trying to change society around for a few folks who clearly have mental disorders. They should be treated with respect and compassion by our medical professionals.
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