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Updated Political Poll
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Topic Started: May 22 2016, 08:44 PM (3,325 Views)
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brumdog44
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Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
Post #256
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
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- Mr Gray
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- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right? Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
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Mr Gray
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Sep 15 2016, 01:37 PM
Post #257
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Coach
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- brumdog44
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- Mr Gray
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- brumdog44
- Sep 14 2016, 09:25 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:13 AM
Regarding your last question, I personally think that the protection of human life should be of primary importance in selecting a leader who is given so much power of such issues. Regardless of what direction I think the law will go, I see it as a character trait issue with the candidate, and I am not interested in a candidate who doesn't view human life with the importance that I view it with. For the record, I am consistent with this regarding all life issues, such as the death penalty and war for example.
Which was my original statement: it wouldn't matter if a candidate agreed with you on every position if they were pro-choice....you wouldn't vote for them. However, I would guess that you most definitely have voted for candidates that are pro-death penalty. George Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney are all pro-death penalty.
I established my stance on the death penalty in 2010. I didn't vote for Romney.
Would you agree that going forward there is very little chance that you will vote for one of the two major parties in a national election given that it's not likely thst either party will put forth a candidate that is pro-life and anti-death penalty? I don't know......do you think a Rand Paul type will never have a chance?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 15 2016, 01:40 PM
Post #258
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain? I am not.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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Sep 15 2016, 05:31 PM
Post #259
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 01:40 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not. i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
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brumdog44
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Sep 15 2016, 05:34 PM
Post #260
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
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- brumdog44
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- brumdog44
- Sep 14 2016, 09:25 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:13 AM
Regarding your last question, I personally think that the protection of human life should be of primary importance in selecting a leader who is given so much power of such issues. Regardless of what direction I think the law will go, I see it as a character trait issue with the candidate, and I am not interested in a candidate who doesn't view human life with the importance that I view it with. For the record, I am consistent with this regarding all life issues, such as the death penalty and war for example.
Which was my original statement: it wouldn't matter if a candidate agreed with you on every position if they were pro-choice....you wouldn't vote for them. However, I would guess that you most definitely have voted for candidates that are pro-death penalty. George Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney are all pro-death penalty.
I established my stance on the death penalty in 2010. I didn't vote for Romney.
Would you agree that going forward there is very little chance that you will vote for one of the two major parties in a national election given that it's not likely thst either party will put forth a candidate that is pro-life and anti-death penalty?
I don't know......do you think a Rand Paul type will never have a chance? I don't. Rand Paul is on the fringe of the Republican Party and was only getting about 2% of the primary vote. Him being on the fringe of the Republican Party isn't a dig, just a statement.
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dreachon
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Sep 15 2016, 08:59 PM
Post #261
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right? I really don't want to turn this into an abortion discussion. However, I already believe fetuses "feel" to some sort of extent. At three months they already have a nervous system and a brain. I'm almost positive they would react to stimuli.
The question is are they "feeling" or is the body instinctively reacting? While nerves can carry signals and be interpreted by the brain, the idea of emotions or pain is a little more abstract. Ants have a nervous system. They'll try to stop you from ripping their legs off. But do they feel "pain"? That's a question I don't think we'll ever know the answer to.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 15 2016, 09:43 PM
Post #262
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 05:31 PM
- Mr Gray
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- Mr Gray
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- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain. Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 15 2016, 09:44 PM
Post #263
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Sep 15 2016, 08:59 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
I really don't want to turn this into an abortion discussion. However, I already believe fetuses "feel" to some sort of extent. At three months they already have a nervous system and a brain. I'm almost positive they would react to stimuli. The question is are they "feeling" or is the body instinctively reacting? While nerves can carry signals and be interpreted by the brain, the idea of emotions or pain is a little more abstract. Ants have a nervous system. They'll try to stop you from ripping their legs off. But do they feel "pain"? That's a question I don't think we'll ever know the answer to. Amazing avoidance of the question.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44
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Sep 15 2016, 10:05 PM
Post #264
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted. you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 16 2016, 05:37 AM
Post #265
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 10:05 PM
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- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 11 2016, 06:31 AM
Regarding dreach's comment on the progression towards abortion compared to slavery of blacks. Black people were not always considered lesser humans in this world. It progressed the wrong way at some point in history (roughly during periods of European technology advancements) and then reversed course and headed the right direction. So based on dreach's own assessment of the comparison, my theory would again be valid.
lol
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor. I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that?
Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach?
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 06:02 AM
Post #266
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 05:37 AM
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- brumdog44
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- dreachon
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 11 2016, 02:06 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I thought your lack of understanding and thought on the issue was sort of funny also.
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that? Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach? Sure. In your hypothetical scenario that I believe can never happen, it would still not change my mind. Since my view on abortion is based on the fetuses ability to survive on its own, and not on any perceived emotional capabilities, there would really be no difference to me.
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 07:10 AM
Post #267
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Creative Title Here
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Aaron, if science proved to you that plants had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow when harvested, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's ok to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology.
Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of a farmer trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that vegetables went through the same feelings, would you still eat them?
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Mr Gray
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Sep 16 2016, 09:12 AM
Post #268
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Coach
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- Sep 14 2016, 08:09 AM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Yes. That's definitely what it is.
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that? Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach?
Sure. In your hypothetical scenario that I believe can never happen, it would still not change my mind. Since my view on abortion is based on the fetuses ability to survive on its own, and not on any perceived emotional capabilities, there would really be no difference to me. then I believe you are either a very sick person or just dishonest. Who, in their right mind, would think it is OK to inflict pain, agony, and ultimately end the life of a person who is captive and defenseless. That's plain and simple, sick!
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 16 2016, 09:18 AM
Post #269
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 07:10 AM
Aaron, if science proved to you that plants had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow when harvested, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's ok to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology.
Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of a farmer trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that vegetables went through the same feelings, would you still eat them? LOL.....comparing a plant to a human. Nice. The subject matter is the protection of human life.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson
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Sep 16 2016, 10:04 AM
Post #270
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Stemlerite
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I think only women should be allowed to make these decisions.
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