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Updated Political Poll
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Topic Started: May 22 2016, 08:44 PM (3,324 Views)
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rkl15
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Sep 16 2016, 11:24 AM
Post #271
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- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 16 2016, 10:04 AM
I think only women should be allowed to make these decisions. Should the Father of the child have any rights?
She certainly didn't conceive on her own...
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 11:42 AM
Post #272
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 09:18 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 07:10 AM
Aaron, if science proved to you that plants had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow when harvested, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's ok to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology.
Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of a farmer trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that vegetables went through the same feelings, would you still eat them?
LOL.....comparing a plant to a human. Nice. The subject matter is the protection of human life. It's a hypothetical question. If science discovered plants had human feelings, would you still eat them?
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 11:48 AM
Post #273
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 09:12 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 06:02 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 05:37 AM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 10:05 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 09:43 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 05:31 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 01:40 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 14 2016, 07:52 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
If science proved to you that say a 3 month old fetus had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow during an abortion, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's a woman's right to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" dreach because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology. Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of their mother trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that the fetus went through the same feelings, would you still feel that it is the moms right?
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that? Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach?
Sure. In your hypothetical scenario that I believe can never happen, it would still not change my mind. Since my view on abortion is based on the fetuses ability to survive on its own, and not on any perceived emotional capabilities, there would really be no difference to me.
then I believe you are either a very sick person or just dishonest. Who, in their right mind, would think it is OK to inflict pain, agony, and ultimately end the life of a person who is captive and defenseless. That's plain and simple, sick! Because I don't consider it to be a human life yet. The reason the plant analogy is so ridiculous and stupid is because plants are clearly not humans.
So if you can understand why the plant analogy is ridiculous, then you should able to understan how people can be in favor of abortion.
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sirbrianwilson
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Sep 16 2016, 11:59 AM
Post #274
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- rkl15
- Sep 16 2016, 11:24 AM
- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 16 2016, 10:04 AM
I think only women should be allowed to make these decisions.
Should the Father of the child have any rights? She certainly didn't conceive on her own... I think the ultimate decision should come down to the female. It's a medical procedure on her own body.
br
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rkl15
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Sep 16 2016, 12:13 PM
Post #275
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- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 11:48 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 09:12 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 06:02 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 05:37 AM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 10:05 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 09:43 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 05:31 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 01:40 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 03:38 AM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Not going to answer for Dreach.....but are you okay with aborting a fetus prior to it being capable of feeling pain?
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that? Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach?
Sure. In your hypothetical scenario that I believe can never happen, it would still not change my mind. Since my view on abortion is based on the fetuses ability to survive on its own, and not on any perceived emotional capabilities, there would really be no difference to me.
then I believe you are either a very sick person or just dishonest. Who, in their right mind, would think it is OK to inflict pain, agony, and ultimately end the life of a person who is captive and defenseless. That's plain and simple, sick!
Because I don't consider it to be a human life yet. The reason the plant analogy is so ridiculous and stupid is because plants are clearly not humans. So if you can understand why the plant analogy is ridiculous, then you should able to understan how people can be in favor of abortion. The simple question to you is, "when" do you consider it human life?
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sirbrianwilson
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Sep 16 2016, 02:37 PM
Post #276
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Stemlerite
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Looks like Johnson and Stein both failed to qualify for the first presidential debate.
br
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mongo
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Sep 16 2016, 02:41 PM
Post #277
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Coach
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Literally every single thread on here ends up on abortion....
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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sirbrianwilson
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Sep 16 2016, 02:43 PM
Post #278
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Stemlerite
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Let's abort the topic ;)
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brumdog44
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Sep 16 2016, 05:42 PM
Post #279
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 09:18 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 07:10 AM
Aaron, if science proved to you that plants had a desire to survive and definitely felt pain, agony and sorrow when harvested, just like your born children would if someone were trying to kill them, would you still feel that it's ok to inflict such pain dread and death? This is not a "gotcha" because this technology does not exist that I'm aware of. But you do need to seriously think about it outside of your established ideology.
Think about your own children and the agony you would experience at the thought of a farmer trying to kill them while they fought through pain to try to survive. If you knew that vegetables went through the same feelings, would you still eat them?
LOL.....comparing a plant to a human. Nice. The subject matter is the protection of human life. Amazing avoidance of the question. Are you the only one that gets to ask hypotheticals? (and you keep stating that science will eventually show that a three month old fetus feels pain with no scientific proof of that.....only your assumption)
And I completely understand your question. I just don't know why you insist on asking it when it makes difference to your own personal opinion....so if someone agreed with that statement, it still doesn't mean they are pro-life. It just puts a time frame on it.
In the answer to your question, I would lean toward saying that I would say that at that point of pregnancy I would be against aborting fetuses. I frankly, though, would want time to think it through.
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 09:03 PM
Post #280
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Creative Title Here
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- rkl15
- Sep 16 2016, 12:13 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 11:48 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 09:12 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 16 2016, 06:02 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 16 2016, 05:37 AM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 10:05 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 09:43 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 05:31 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 15 2016, 01:40 PM
- brumdog44
- Sep 15 2016, 09:10 AM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I am not.
i'm really unsure of why you would bring the idea of science proving that a 3 month old fetus feeling pain. I'm not digging, just seeking clarification. I think your idea simply would change the timeline of when some pro-choice people find abortion acceptable, not whether r not they found it acceptable. From your last statement, it doesn't change your opinion at all -- that you feel abortion should be illegal regardless of whether a fetus of a certain age feels pain.
Changing my opinion is not what I'm worried about. I could have said 1 month or 1 day or whatever. I picked a random time frame that I know dreach and others on here are currently ok with the fetus being aborted.
you've already indicated that in your opinion that it doesn't matter to you whether or not they felel pain -- you are pro-life either way. So I guess I don't understand why you are asking the question since you yourself don't consider it to be the determining factor.
I really can't believe that you don't understand this. The entire subject revolved around my statement that technological advancements will show the fetus to be more human which will change more people's minds on abortion and eventually the law. My hypothetical scenario is a direct example of that. My mind is not the one that would need to be changed in order for the tide to change on abortion. Seriously man, what don't you understand about that? Would you care to answer the question that I asked dreach?
Sure. In your hypothetical scenario that I believe can never happen, it would still not change my mind. Since my view on abortion is based on the fetuses ability to survive on its own, and not on any perceived emotional capabilities, there would really be no difference to me.
then I believe you are either a very sick person or just dishonest. Who, in their right mind, would think it is OK to inflict pain, agony, and ultimately end the life of a person who is captive and defenseless. That's plain and simple, sick!
Because I don't consider it to be a human life yet. The reason the plant analogy is so ridiculous and stupid is because plants are clearly not humans. So if you can understand why the plant analogy is ridiculous, then you should able to understan how people can be in favor of abortion.
The simple question to you is, "when" do you consider it human life? Yeah we've discussed it pretty in depth on here, but I guess I won't make you go searching for my opinion in previous threads.
I've believe that at the point where a fetus is able to survive without the mother, is when it is considered human. I view the mother as a life support system. Just as a family member can choose to remove a loved one off life support, I believe the mother has the right to remove herself as the life support system for a fetus.
This point right now is about the 21 week mark, so I've advocated for an abortion deadline of 18-20 weeks (give it some cushion). I also completely acknowledge that with scientific advancements, this time frame may become smaller, and I'm ok with that.
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dreachon
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Sep 16 2016, 09:06 PM
Post #281
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- brumdog44
- Sep 16 2016, 05:42 PM
Amazing avoidance of the question. Are you the only one that gets to ask hypotheticals? (and you keep stating that science will eventually show that a three month old fetus feels pain with no scientific proof of that.....only your assumption)
I especially got a kick out of this. While my hypothetical was clearly the more ridiculous of the two (purposefully so), in essence they are simply both questions that I believe can never be answered.
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mongo
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Sep 16 2016, 09:42 PM
Post #282
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Coach
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- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 16 2016, 02:43 PM
Too expensive...lets just push this thread down the stairs.
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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brumdog44
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Sep 16 2016, 10:11 PM
Post #283
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The guy picked last in gym class
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Does either side really want to win the election?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/16/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-guns-secret-service/index.html
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HoosierLars
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Sep 17 2016, 12:13 AM
Post #284
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3 in a row
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- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 16 2016, 10:04 AM
I think only women should be allowed to make these decisions. I think society needs to impose some reasonable limits, and can't allow late term abortions to be legal. Those cheapen the value of human life, IMO.
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brumdog44
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Sep 17 2016, 03:51 AM
Post #285
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- HoosierLars
- Sep 17 2016, 12:13 AM
- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 16 2016, 10:04 AM
I think only women should be allowed to make these decisions.
I think society needs to impose some reasonable limits, and can't allow late term abortions to be legal. Those cheapen the value of human life, IMO. What do you consider 'reasonable'?
If you are equating late term abortion to third trimester, currently 41 of 50 states already do ban 'late term'.
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