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Updated Political Poll
Tweet Topic Started: May 22 2016, 08:44 PM (3,321 Views)
mongo Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM Post #316
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Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
dreachon
Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
mongo
Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 04:29 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 17 2016, 04:11 PM
It's difficult to imagine some new breakthrough in science that would lead most people to believe that something magical happens at the instant of conception. We have a good understanding about how the fertilized egg starts subdividing into more cells, and after a few days is already up to hundreds of cells. The process of the fetus' development is well understood biological science. What research is leading you to believe there is going to be some game changing breakthrough?
I don't think you're really considering the situation because of your steel framed view about this "moment of conception" issue which is only a small part of the abortion issue.

We are already seeing technology "bring the fetus to life" with the 3D images and the 3D videos are stunning. We are also starting to understand the cognitive and emotional state of the fetus more every day and they now have solid evidence of connections they are forming in the womb to people outside, particularly their mother's voice. We are seeing them respond to certain stimuli just like a newborn would, or in some cases to and I would, at earlier and earlier stages simply because we continue to advance the instruments to do so.

This is a science that will continue to advance, unrelated to the abortion issue......however softer hearts towards the fetus will be an inevitable byproduct.

Have you ever seen a video of an abortion Lars? You should see the little guy or girl squirm to get away. It's maybe the saddest thing I've ever seen and it sincerely breaks my heart just sitting here thinking about it. I spend a large portion of my life standing up to the innocent and the weak......it's the way I was raised and it's in my dna. Watching those little guys fight for their life and ultimately lose defies everything in my body and mind. And for what? Because she can't afford the child? It's a bad time in her life? The father is a loser? I'm not saying those are the only reasons, but they make up a lot of them, and it makes no sense to me since each of those are easily solved with adoption options.
What about rape, incest, or the mothers health ? None of those conditions matter to you at all? If they don't, then it's ironic someone who claims to value human life so much puts an embryo the size of a lime above a woman.
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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mongo Sep 18 2016, 09:47 PM Post #317
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Your last paragraph is purely opinion, and the fundamental issue at hand. You think a lime sized embryo (relevant) is the same as say a 7 year old child....or the grown woman life support system for said embryo. Some of us do not.
Posted Image

"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 05:42 AM Post #318
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Sep 18 2016, 09:47 PM
Your last paragraph is purely opinion, and the fundamental issue at hand. You think a lime sized embryo (relevant) is the same as say a 7 year old child....or the grown woman life support system for said embryo. Some of us do not.
Tell me how size is relevent? My 9 year old is triple the size of my 1 year old......is she more human? Is she entitled to more human rights and protections than he is because she is larger?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM Post #319
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Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
mongo
Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
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Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM
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Sep 17 2016, 04:29 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 17 2016, 04:11 PM
It's difficult to imagine some new breakthrough in science that would lead most people to believe that something magical happens at the instant of conception. We have a good understanding about how the fertilized egg starts subdividing into more cells, and after a few days is already up to hundreds of cells. The process of the fetus' development is well understood biological science. What research is leading you to believe there is going to be some game changing breakthrough?
I don't think you're really considering the situation because of your steel framed view about this "moment of conception" issue which is only a small part of the abortion issue.

We are already seeing technology "bring the fetus to life" with the 3D images and the 3D videos are stunning. We are also starting to understand the cognitive and emotional state of the fetus more every day and they now have solid evidence of connections they are forming in the womb to people outside, particularly their mother's voice. We are seeing them respond to certain stimuli just like a newborn would, or in some cases to and I would, at earlier and earlier stages simply because we continue to advance the instruments to do so.

This is a science that will continue to advance, unrelated to the abortion issue......however softer hearts towards the fetus will be an inevitable byproduct.

Have you ever seen a video of an abortion Lars? You should see the little guy or girl squirm to get away. It's maybe the saddest thing I've ever seen and it sincerely breaks my heart just sitting here thinking about it. I spend a large portion of my life standing up to the innocent and the weak......it's the way I was raised and it's in my dna. Watching those little guys fight for their life and ultimately lose defies everything in my body and mind. And for what? Because she can't afford the child? It's a bad time in her life? The father is a loser? I'm not saying those are the only reasons, but they make up a lot of them, and it makes no sense to me since each of those are easily solved with adoption options.
What about rape, incest, or the mothers health ? None of those conditions matter to you at all? If they don't, then it's ironic someone who claims to value human life so much puts an embryo the size of a lime above a woman.
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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mongo Sep 19 2016, 10:25 AM Post #320
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Sep 19 2016, 05:42 AM
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Sep 18 2016, 09:47 PM
Your last paragraph is purely opinion, and the fundamental issue at hand. You think a lime sized embryo (relevant) is the same as say a 7 year old child....or the grown woman life support system for said embryo. Some of us do not.
Tell me how size is relevent? My 9 year old is triple the size of my 1 year old......is she more human? Is she entitled to more human rights and protections than he is because she is larger?
The point is discussing at what point we consider it a human being. A lime sized life form 4 or 5 weeks into pregnancy that clearly could never survive outside of its mother is not the same as the mother. Or your 1 year old. Or your 9 year old.
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"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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mongo Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM Post #321
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Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
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Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
mongo
Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 04:29 PM
HoosierLars
Sep 17 2016, 04:11 PM
It's difficult to imagine some new breakthrough in science that would lead most people to believe that something magical happens at the instant of conception. We have a good understanding about how the fertilized egg starts subdividing into more cells, and after a few days is already up to hundreds of cells. The process of the fetus' development is well understood biological science. What research is leading you to believe there is going to be some game changing breakthrough?
I don't think you're really considering the situation because of your steel framed view about this "moment of conception" issue which is only a small part of the abortion issue.

We are already seeing technology "bring the fetus to life" with the 3D images and the 3D videos are stunning. We are also starting to understand the cognitive and emotional state of the fetus more every day and they now have solid evidence of connections they are forming in the womb to people outside, particularly their mother's voice. We are seeing them respond to certain stimuli just like a newborn would, or in some cases to and I would, at earlier and earlier stages simply because we continue to advance the instruments to do so.

This is a science that will continue to advance, unrelated to the abortion issue......however softer hearts towards the fetus will be an inevitable byproduct.

Have you ever seen a video of an abortion Lars? You should see the little guy or girl squirm to get away. It's maybe the saddest thing I've ever seen and it sincerely breaks my heart just sitting here thinking about it. I spend a large portion of my life standing up to the innocent and the weak......it's the way I was raised and it's in my dna. Watching those little guys fight for their life and ultimately lose defies everything in my body and mind. And for what? Because she can't afford the child? It's a bad time in her life? The father is a loser? I'm not saying those are the only reasons, but they make up a lot of them, and it makes no sense to me since each of those are easily solved with adoption options.
What about rape, incest, or the mothers health ? None of those conditions matter to you at all? If they don't, then it's ironic someone who claims to value human life so much puts an embryo the size of a lime above a woman.
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Posted Image

"Son, if you really want something in this life you have to work hard for it. Now quiet! They're about to announce the lottery numbers."
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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 10:37 AM Post #322
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Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
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Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 04:29 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
What about rape, incest, or the mothers health ? None of those conditions matter to you at all? If they don't, then it's ironic someone who claims to value human life so much puts an embryo the size of a lime above a woman.
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
because I believe that fetus should be protected like you, I, or a newborn are. Rape is really irrelevant if you think about it Mongo....if you don't think the fetus is worthy of protection, then why would the means of conception matter? Case in point....do you think that same hypothetical mother should be able to kill the newborn child? Assuming you do not, then as I stated.....her being raped isn't a factor in whether or not you think that child should survive and at what point you draw that line.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 10:39 AM Post #323
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Sep 18 2016, 09:47 PM
Your last paragraph is purely opinion, and the fundamental issue at hand. You think a lime sized embryo (relevant) is the same as say a 7 year old child....or the grown woman life support system for said embryo. Some of us do not.
Tell me how size is relevent? My 9 year old is triple the size of my 1 year old......is she more human? Is she entitled to more human rights and protections than he is because she is larger?
The point is discussing at what point we consider it a human being. A lime sized life form 4 or 5 weeks into pregnancy that clearly could never survive outside of its mother is not the same as the mother. Or your 1 year old. Or your 9 year old.
"not the same".....in what way? Is the 4 week old fetus human? Is my 1 year old "the same" as my 9 year old?
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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rkl15 Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM Post #324
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Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
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Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
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Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
mongo
Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 17 2016, 04:29 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
What about rape, incest, or the mothers health ? None of those conditions matter to you at all? If they don't, then it's ironic someone who claims to value human life so much puts an embryo the size of a lime above a woman.
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?

Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand.

Should she be able to have an abortion?
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sirbrianwilson Sep 19 2016, 11:51 AM Post #325
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I'm half-expecting a near-future comment of either, "she should have just crossed her legs," "What did she expect dressing like that," or "She should have controlled her alcohol intake."

br
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rkl15 Sep 19 2016, 11:57 AM Post #326
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Sep 19 2016, 11:51 AM
I'm half-expecting a near-future comment of either, "she should have just crossed her legs," "What did she expect dressing like that," or "She should have controlled her alcohol intake."

br
You won't get that reply from me.

But I am pro-life, and feel there are times where abortion is the correct route.

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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 12:50 PM Post #327
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Sep 19 2016, 11:51 AM
I'm half-expecting a near-future comment of either, "she should have just crossed her legs," "What did she expect dressing like that," or "She should have controlled her alcohol intake."

br
who on here would say that? If you think it's me, then you really haven't been paying attention over the years. Your so stuck in stereotypes that it truly prevents you from engaging in real conversation and ever learning anything
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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Mr Gray Sep 19 2016, 12:52 PM Post #328
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Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
Mr Gray
Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
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Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Mr Gray
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mongo
Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?

Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand.

Should she be able to have an abortion?
yeah, that's my point. I mean if you don't think that fetus deserves human protections, than what's the difference whether or not she was raped or had a one night stand? Dreach and I are very opposite on the issue, but he's likely very consistent on this point....in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Sep 19 2016, 12:53 PM Post #329
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Sep 19 2016, 12:50 PM
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Sep 19 2016, 11:51 AM
I'm half-expecting a near-future comment of either, "she should have just crossed her legs," "What did she expect dressing like that," or "She should have controlled her alcohol intake."

br
who on here would say that? If you think it's me, then you really haven't been paying attention over the years. Your so stuck in stereotypes that it truly prevents you from engaging in real conversation and ever learning anything
nah...it's just a knee-jerk reaction i get to hearing a bunch of non-females talk about abortion.

br
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mongo Sep 19 2016, 12:55 PM Post #330
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Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM
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Sep 17 2016, 09:24 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Where did I say I would rather kill the woman than the fetus?
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent.

I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise.

Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations.

My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?

Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand.

Should she be able to have an abortion?
Not the same scenario at all
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