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Updated Political Poll
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Topic Started: May 22 2016, 08:44 PM (3,319 Views)
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Mr Gray
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Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
Post #346
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision. Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars
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Sep 20 2016, 10:43 AM
Post #347
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3 in a row
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- Member
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 12:52 PM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM
- mongo
- Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 17 2016, 10:09 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
But you are against abortion under any circumstances, right?
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent. I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise. Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations. My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ? Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand. Should she be able to have an abortion?
yeah, that's my point. I mean if you don't think that fetus deserves human protections, than what's the difference whether or not she was raped or had a one night stand? Dreach and I are very opposite on the issue, but he's likely very consistent on this point....in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. "in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. "
Actually it is relevant, because we don't want psychopathic rapists propagating their DNA.
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HoosierLars
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Sep 20 2016, 10:48 AM
Post #348
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3 in a row
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- brumdog44
- Sep 19 2016, 09:28 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 12:50 PM
- sirbrianwilson
- Sep 19 2016, 11:51 AM
I'm half-expecting a near-future comment of either, "she should have just crossed her legs," "What did she expect dressing like that," or "She should have controlled her alcohol intake."
br
who on here would say that? If you think it's me, then you really haven't been paying attention over the years. Your so stuck in stereotypes that it truly prevents you from engaging in real conversation and ever learning anything
Lars. Not because he means it, but because he likes to stir up shit. Says the guy who always walks around with two sticks, in case he drops one...
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Mr Gray
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Sep 20 2016, 11:41 AM
Post #349
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Coach
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- HoosierLars
- Sep 20 2016, 10:43 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 12:52 PM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM
- mongo
- Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 04:43 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
Gotta love assumptions.
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent. I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise. Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations. My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ? Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand. Should she be able to have an abortion?
yeah, that's my point. I mean if you don't think that fetus deserves human protections, than what's the difference whether or not she was raped or had a one night stand? Dreach and I are very opposite on the issue, but he's likely very consistent on this point....in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on.
"in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. " Actually it is relevant, because we don't want psychopathic rapists propagating their DNA. Man, that's so sad that you think that way. This is 100% a true story...my best friend in the world, Chad, is the product of a rape. He's a salt of the Earth kind of guy....hard worker, great father, volunteer fireman, baseball coach....and the list goes on. I personally know of 2 lives that he has saved (as a firefighter), and I'll bet both of them are very glad that his psycho rapist father propogated his DNA.
Not a big fan of genetic societal engineering.....but you and Hitler would have gotten along great.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon
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Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
Post #350
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Creative Title Here
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father. Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me.
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rkl15
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Sep 20 2016, 01:56 PM
Post #351
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All-Star
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- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me. Nah, if she was in a Third world country and got pregnant without being married they would stone her to death.
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Mr Gray
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Sep 20 2016, 01:57 PM
Post #352
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Coach
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- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me. killing a baby that a man wants to keep seems even more 3rd world....well, more like Barbarian.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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HoosierLars
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Sep 20 2016, 08:27 PM
Post #353
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3 in a row
- Posts:
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 11:41 AM
- HoosierLars
- Sep 20 2016, 10:43 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 12:52 PM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM
- mongo
- Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 07:10 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
It may be an assumption, and you may have in fact stated your opinion on this before, but I honestly can't recall you ever saying there were circumstances when you were ok with abortion.
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent. I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise. Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations. My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ? Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand. Should she be able to have an abortion?
yeah, that's my point. I mean if you don't think that fetus deserves human protections, than what's the difference whether or not she was raped or had a one night stand? Dreach and I are very opposite on the issue, but he's likely very consistent on this point....in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on.
"in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. " Actually it is relevant, because we don't want psychopathic rapists propagating their DNA.
Man, that's so sad that you think that way. This is 100% a true story...my best friend in the world, Chad, is the product of a rape. He's a salt of the Earth kind of guy....hard worker, great father, volunteer fireman, baseball coach....and the list goes on. I personally know of 2 lives that he has saved (as a firefighter), and I'll bet both of them are very glad that his psycho rapist father propogated his DNA. Not a big fan of genetic societal engineering.....but you and Hitler would have gotten along great. You've told your friend's story before, and it wasn't any more compelling the second time. His soul would have gone into another body, and his replacement fire-fighters would have saved those two people.
Not believing a raped woman should be forced by the government to carry the fetus to full term = Hitler Yeah, I've always been a big fan of Adolf.
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brumdog44
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Sep 20 2016, 08:34 PM
Post #354
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 01:57 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me.
killing a baby that a man wants to keep seems even more 3rd world....well, more like Barbarian. In the eyes of the law, it is not a baby. It also isn't considered murder. Therefore, the line you are using -- 'killing a baby' -- is your opinion, not accepted fact nor a legal definition.
So until he can actually carry the fetus, it's ultimately not his decision. Abortion is a legal procedure. Forcing someone to not have a completely legal procedure done on them because someone else disagrees with them seems wrong, IMO.
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brumdog44
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Sep 20 2016, 08:39 PM
Post #355
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- HoosierLars
- Sep 20 2016, 08:27 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 11:41 AM
- HoosierLars
- Sep 20 2016, 10:43 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 12:52 PM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 11:37 AM
- mongo
- Sep 19 2016, 10:28 AM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 19 2016, 05:44 AM
- mongo
- Sep 18 2016, 09:37 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 18 2016, 08:08 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 18 2016, 07:44 PM
Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
It would have been good of mongo to know that also before making a stupid and derogatory comment towards me as well. But at least he threw in "the size of a lime" because that's super relevent. I have addressed the issue of the mothers life being in danger multiple times. Pretty much everyone on here just sticks to the line of thinking assigned to their side of the spectrum (right or left) except Brum and I, so I guess that's why you just assume I do as well and block out the comments from me that show otherwise. Anyway, there are situations in life where the loss of a life is inevitable or very highly likely. In those situations it is morally appropriate to make a decision as to which life is to be lost and which one is to be saved. This is not exclusive to abortion but would include it in an instance where it is medically necessary to end the life of the fetus if you choose to save the life of the mother.....in other words, one of them is going to die regardless. Other instances are self-defense situations, police situations, even certain traffic accident situations. My wife and I have decided that if we were faced with that terrible reality, we would save the baby, but I do not fault anyone's opposing decision. It's comparable to the question of whether or not you would throw yourself in front of a vehicle or step in front of a bullet to save the life of your child. Most of you likely would. I know I would not hesitate.
Derogatory ? I was asking you. Both posts were questions. I didn't assume anything about your complete position on it, only trying to clarify i understood it correctly from the past discussions. The lime thing was because it was in a link posted by Lars and referenced by dreach. And it is relevant because we are discussing when you draw the line in the pregnancy even if to you the moment of conception is that line. You also didn't answer about rape...
Is the mothers life in danger by delivering a baby which was the product of rape? In your reference to rape and incest you asked if I put the baby's life above the mother's. I don't. They are equal.
Particularly with rape whether her health is at risk or not doesn't even matter to me. Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ?
Hypothetical: a 23 year old woman is single, in grad school, and very career driven. She has no intention of having children soon or maybe ever. Coming home from the library one night she is attacked and raped. As a result she becomes pregnant. Why shouldn't she have the right to abort that pregnancy ? Instead of Raped, she stops by a bar, and has a one-night stand. Should she be able to have an abortion?
yeah, that's my point. I mean if you don't think that fetus deserves human protections, than what's the difference whether or not she was raped or had a one night stand? Dreach and I are very opposite on the issue, but he's likely very consistent on this point....in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on.
"in this situation rape shouldn't really be relevant or change your mind regardless of what side of the issue you sit on. " Actually it is relevant, because we don't want psychopathic rapists propagating their DNA.
Man, that's so sad that you think that way. This is 100% a true story...my best friend in the world, Chad, is the product of a rape. He's a salt of the Earth kind of guy....hard worker, great father, volunteer fireman, baseball coach....and the list goes on. I personally know of 2 lives that he has saved (as a firefighter), and I'll bet both of them are very glad that his psycho rapist father propogated his DNA. Not a big fan of genetic societal engineering.....but you and Hitler would have gotten along great.
You've told your friend's story before, and it wasn't any more compelling the second time. His soul would have gone into another body, and his replacement fire-fighters would have saved those two people. Not believing a raped woman should be forced by the government to carry the fetus to full term = Hitler Yeah, I've always been a big fan of Adolf. Not going to get into any of the hitler stuff......just want to say that if a child of rape grows up to be a serial killer or the President doesn't make any difference into whether abortion should be legal if a woman is raped. Either it should be legal or it shouldn't.
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dreachon
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Sep 20 2016, 08:51 PM
Post #356
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Creative Title Here
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Additionally, we've been talking about women who are raped. What about adolescents? Are those in favor of denying a rape victim the option of abortion still in favor when the victim is 14?
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rkl15
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Sep 20 2016, 08:51 PM
Post #357
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All-Star
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- brumdog44
- Sep 20 2016, 08:34 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 01:57 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me.
killing a baby that a man wants to keep seems even more 3rd world....well, more like Barbarian.
In the eyes of the law, it is not a baby. It also isn't considered murder. Therefore, the line you are using -- 'killing a baby' -- is your opinion, not accepted fact nor a legal definition. So until he can actually carry the fetus, it's ultimately not his decision. Abortion is a legal procedure. Forcing someone to not have a completely legal procedure done on them because someone else disagrees with them seems wrong, IMO. If the unborn is "not" considered a child, why do we have Fetal Homicide Laws?
Fetal Homicide State Laws
Kinda surprised we haven't seen a defense attorney claim the "unborn" child was "murdered" in one of these cases.
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brumdog44
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Sep 20 2016, 09:15 PM
Post #358
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The guy picked last in gym class
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- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me.
killing a baby that a man wants to keep seems even more 3rd world....well, more like Barbarian.
In the eyes of the law, it is not a baby. It also isn't considered murder. Therefore, the line you are using -- 'killing a baby' -- is your opinion, not accepted fact nor a legal definition. So until he can actually carry the fetus, it's ultimately not his decision. Abortion is a legal procedure. Forcing someone to not have a completely legal procedure done on them because someone else disagrees with them seems wrong, IMO.
If the unborn is "not" considered a child, why do we have Fetal Homicide Laws? Fetal Homicide State LawsKinda surprised we haven't seen a defense attorney claim the "unborn" child was "murdered" in one of these cases. Mostly because there have been very few cases. Quite a few of those laws pre-date Roe v Wade and have not been changed. A lot of the newer laws haven't ever been brought to trial in any case.
It is also important to recognize that a lot of those laws, the charge isn't 'fetal homicide', it's 'feticide'. Feticide is the killing of a fetus. DA's typically know that 'fetal homicide' laws are on very slippery ground and tend to look for conviction based on the violence against the mother.
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HoosierLars
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Sep 20 2016, 09:52 PM
Post #359
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3 in a row
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- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 08:51 PM
Additionally, we've been talking about women who are raped. What about adolescents? Are those in favor of denying a rape victim the option of abortion still in favor when the victim is 14? What if a woman rapes a man, gets pregnant, and then the man wants her to keep the baby?
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Mr Gray
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Sep 21 2016, 08:54 AM
Post #360
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Coach
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- brumdog44
- Sep 20 2016, 08:34 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 01:57 PM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 01:46 PM
- Mr Gray
- Sep 20 2016, 09:53 AM
- dreachon
- Sep 20 2016, 09:33 AM
- rkl15
- Sep 19 2016, 01:23 PM
So your stance is that only women can make the abortion decision?
I've missed a lot so I'm not sure where to jump back into the conversation, but that's my opinion, personally. Clearly I think it would be best practice to discuss it with the father, family members, doctors, etc...but ultimately it is her decision.
Obviously no body should be able to force the mother to have an abortion, including the father....that probably goes without saying. But on the other side of things, if a couple gets pregnant, and then say 3 months in, the woman decides she doesn't want to have the baby, how is it that you feel she has the exclusive right to make that decision and terminate what would become his child as well? Seems very unfair to the father.
Life is not always fair. Forcing a woman to carry a baby she doesn't want seems like some real third world extremist take on women's rights to me.
killing a baby that a man wants to keep seems even more 3rd world....well, more like Barbarian.
In the eyes of the law, it is not a baby. It also isn't considered murder. Therefore, the line you are using -- 'killing a baby' -- is your opinion, not accepted fact nor a legal definition. So until he can actually carry the fetus, it's ultimately not his decision. Abortion is a legal procedure. Forcing someone to not have a completely legal procedure done on them because someone else disagrees with them seems wrong, IMO. Here's the thing though brum....even under the current status where the fetus isn't considered a full human being....it is considered a thing with a degree of legal status, because I believe if that same woman chooses to keep the baby, the father is in fact responsible for a part of the medical costs to carry it and deliver it...meaning the "thing" is considered by law to be partially his. With that being said, it doesn't seem fair that she is granted sole decision making authority for something that he is being partially held liable for.
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 The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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