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Orlando shooting
Tweet Topic Started: Jun 12 2016, 12:10 PM (409 Views)
Mr Gray Jun 18 2016, 07:36 AM Post #46
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Coach
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dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 12:37 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:31 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 10:10 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:02 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 09:53 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 07:32 AM
dreachon
Jun 15 2016, 06:47 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 15 2016, 06:36 PM
dreachon
Jun 15 2016, 01:36 PM
brumdog44
Jun 15 2016, 11:49 AM
I would amend the statement to say that they are on the FBI no-fly list or are under investigation for being put on the no fly list. I don't think that you can simply say it should be based on what 'personally feels'.
I mean I agree, but since we don't know exactly what lands someone on the federal no fly list, he seems hesitant to use that as a basis for making the decision. So I think if we simply establish that the person is on the no fly list for whatever reasons he would support, then the question of whether this person should be allowed to buy a gun becomes much easier to answer.
I actually answered the question already further down on that post.
No, you answered what you think the process should, but currently isn't, be. Your solution, while certainly feasible, doesn't currently exist. So under the process we have right now, should someone with ISIS ties be allowed to purchase a gun?
i don't have enough information on our current system to answer dreach. Is it illegal to have ISIS ties?
I know. Like I said before, for the purpose of this question I would like you to assume the person has been put on the no fly list for reasons that you agree are legitimate.
no, I'm actually asking the question.....is it illegal to have ISIS ties and be in the United States?
Ah. Honestly, seems to be a gray area, no? Not illegal enough to get arrested, but illegal enough to have certain rights taken away like flying.
I mean, that sort of seams like bullshit to begin with doesn't it? We have determined that certain people do lose their 2nd amendment rights, such as felons, children, and those with certain mental conditions, but I believe in each of those cases, the criteria is clearly defined. I can't justify the removal of someone's rights based on something that seems to be extremely unclearly defined, such as "ties to Isis", and I really don't think it needs to be such a specific criteria. It should be "terrorist threat", and this should have a procedure in place to ensure that a person is defined in this way fairly.......which would be the case if we categorized this as a crime, because we already have a process in place here for fairly determining if someone is guilty of a crime.

I don't know what else to say about this dreach...if you're trying to pigeon hole me into something here, I think it's unfair, because i can't answer questions with unclear or vague definitions. Should a declared member of ISIS who has pledged death to America be able to purchase a gun?......no, but that should be accompanied by the conviction of a crime for the same thing.
So...yes.

Not trying to pigeon hole you into anything. It was part of Obama's speech that a lot of people seemed to hit on and I was interested in your opinion.
When, it's not a yes or no. We can't just arbitrarily take away someone's rights if they haven't committed or are being accused of a crime.
Posted Image
The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jun 18 2016, 09:02 AM Post #47
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Mr Gray
Jun 18 2016, 07:36 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 12:37 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:31 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 10:10 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:02 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 09:53 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 07:32 AM
dreachon
Jun 15 2016, 06:47 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 15 2016, 06:36 PM
dreachon
Jun 15 2016, 01:36 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
I actually answered the question already further down on that post.
No, you answered what you think the process should, but currently isn't, be. Your solution, while certainly feasible, doesn't currently exist. So under the process we have right now, should someone with ISIS ties be allowed to purchase a gun?
i don't have enough information on our current system to answer dreach. Is it illegal to have ISIS ties?
I know. Like I said before, for the purpose of this question I would like you to assume the person has been put on the no fly list for reasons that you agree are legitimate.
no, I'm actually asking the question.....is it illegal to have ISIS ties and be in the United States?
Ah. Honestly, seems to be a gray area, no? Not illegal enough to get arrested, but illegal enough to have certain rights taken away like flying.
I mean, that sort of seams like bullshit to begin with doesn't it? We have determined that certain people do lose their 2nd amendment rights, such as felons, children, and those with certain mental conditions, but I believe in each of those cases, the criteria is clearly defined. I can't justify the removal of someone's rights based on something that seems to be extremely unclearly defined, such as "ties to Isis", and I really don't think it needs to be such a specific criteria. It should be "terrorist threat", and this should have a procedure in place to ensure that a person is defined in this way fairly.......which would be the case if we categorized this as a crime, because we already have a process in place here for fairly determining if someone is guilty of a crime.

I don't know what else to say about this dreach...if you're trying to pigeon hole me into something here, I think it's unfair, because i can't answer questions with unclear or vague definitions. Should a declared member of ISIS who has pledged death to America be able to purchase a gun?......no, but that should be accompanied by the conviction of a crime for the same thing.
So...yes.

Not trying to pigeon hole you into anything. It was part of Obama's speech that a lot of people seemed to hit on and I was interested in your opinion.
When, it's not a yes or no. We can't just arbitrarily take away someone's rights if they haven't committed or are being accused of a crime.
I think a lot of prisoners at Gitmo would agree.
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HoosierLars Jun 18 2016, 01:20 PM Post #48
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3 in a row
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brumdog44
Jun 18 2016, 09:02 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 18 2016, 07:36 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 12:37 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:31 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 10:10 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 10:02 AM
dreachon
Jun 16 2016, 09:53 AM
Mr Gray
Jun 16 2016, 07:32 AM
dreachon
Jun 15 2016, 06:47 PM
Mr Gray
Jun 15 2016, 06:36 PM

Quoting limited to 10 levels deep
No, you answered what you think the process should, but currently isn't, be. Your solution, while certainly feasible, doesn't currently exist. So under the process we have right now, should someone with ISIS ties be allowed to purchase a gun?
i don't have enough information on our current system to answer dreach. Is it illegal to have ISIS ties?
I know. Like I said before, for the purpose of this question I would like you to assume the person has been put on the no fly list for reasons that you agree are legitimate.
no, I'm actually asking the question.....is it illegal to have ISIS ties and be in the United States?
Ah. Honestly, seems to be a gray area, no? Not illegal enough to get arrested, but illegal enough to have certain rights taken away like flying.
I mean, that sort of seams like bullshit to begin with doesn't it? We have determined that certain people do lose their 2nd amendment rights, such as felons, children, and those with certain mental conditions, but I believe in each of those cases, the criteria is clearly defined. I can't justify the removal of someone's rights based on something that seems to be extremely unclearly defined, such as "ties to Isis", and I really don't think it needs to be such a specific criteria. It should be "terrorist threat", and this should have a procedure in place to ensure that a person is defined in this way fairly.......which would be the case if we categorized this as a crime, because we already have a process in place here for fairly determining if someone is guilty of a crime.

I don't know what else to say about this dreach...if you're trying to pigeon hole me into something here, I think it's unfair, because i can't answer questions with unclear or vague definitions. Should a declared member of ISIS who has pledged death to America be able to purchase a gun?......no, but that should be accompanied by the conviction of a crime for the same thing.
So...yes.

Not trying to pigeon hole you into anything. It was part of Obama's speech that a lot of people seemed to hit on and I was interested in your opinion.
When, it's not a yes or no. We can't just arbitrarily take away someone's rights if they haven't committed or are being accused of a crime.
I think a lot of prisoners at Gitmo would agree.
Possibly some of the ones who haven't already been released to get back a deserter.
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