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Wikileaks release on DNC e-mails
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 23 2016, 01:04 AM (199 Views)
brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 01:04 AM Post #1
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Think this one will have legs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/

At this point, I'm simply at a depression point. Never have we been faced with a worse decision. Even if this results in Clinton stepping down or her delegates abandoning her for Sanders (which I don't think will happen in large enough numbers to make a difference), I'm not in favor of having to pick between Sanders and Trump either.
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brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 01:13 AM Post #2
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/22/politics/donald-trump-ted-cruz-endorsement/index.html

Trump and Clinton. We elected these two assholes to represent us in the race for president. And the people saying they are going to vote for Johnson or Stein really haven't looked into their positions or backgrounds that deeply, IMO......and the truth is that neither is going to get elected nor come close to winning any state.

"The problem was you had to keep choosing between one evil or another, and no matter what you chose, they sliced a little bit more off you, until there was nothing left. At the age of 25 most people were finished. A whole god-damned nation of assholes driving automobiles, eating, having babies, doing everything in the worst way possible, like voting for the presidential candidates who reminded them most of themselves." -- Charles Butkowski
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Mr Gray Jul 23 2016, 01:27 AM Post #3
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brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 01:04 AM
Think this one will have legs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/

At this point, I'm simply at a depression point. Never have we been faced with a worse decision. Even if this results in Clinton stepping down or her delegates abandoning her for Sanders (which I don't think will happen in large enough numbers to make a difference), I'm not in favor of having to pick between Sanders and Trump either.
Did you see something in the article that would make Hillary step down?
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 02:23 AM Post #4
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Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 01:27 AM
brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 01:04 AM
Think this one will have legs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/

At this point, I'm simply at a depression point. Never have we been faced with a worse decision. Even if this results in Clinton stepping down or her delegates abandoning her for Sanders (which I don't think will happen in large enough numbers to make a difference), I'm not in favor of having to pick between Sanders and Trump either.
Did you see something in the article that would make Hillary step down?
No. The only way that would occur is if there was immense pressure because the feeling was that she absolutely couldn't win. I don't think that's the case, but it certainly puts that in extreme jeopardy. What I saw was things that will make the hard core Bernie Sanders voters not vote for her. She can't win without capturing a big percentage of those voters. I don't consider a lot of the hard core Sanders supporters as being very rational.

I don't like how Sanders basically stamped his feet before endorsing unless the party platform moved more his way. I don't like the fact that he says one thing ("I will do everything in my power to make sure Donald Trump doesn't get elected") while not exactly doing that.

I think Sanders and Trump have one thing in common: they both call themselves outsiders and call the system corrupt. But it doesn't take a genius to do that. A real candidate says that and then comes up with solutions. I don't agree with Sanders solutions as IMO his solutions are not financially feasible and I don't agree with Trump because....well, other than the whole fourth grade semantics and narcissism, he has zero actual solutions.

I agree with Clinton on most issues. But she has big distrust issues and now e-mails are being released that even if none of the actual things talked about it in terms of plotting against Sanders occurred (you know as well as I do that the same type of internal memos were circulating among the RNC with Trump), the appearance to the public is that he was 'robbed' (despite the reality that he really wasn't even close in terms of actual vote totals). I'm not naive enough to believe those things don't go on or haven't went on previously.....but I'm also not naive enough to think that the American public is smart enough to know that. The biggest sins in politics tend to be not committing the crime, but getting caught. Clinton might well have run out of passes at this point.

For the first time in history, we might be entering an election where neither side knows which is better: winning the election or losing the election. Whoever wins is going to be a very unpopular president.....regardless of what occurs during their presidency. I imagine that neither is actually going to accomplish much, which will breed even more unpopularity.
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Mr Gray Jul 23 2016, 06:38 AM Post #5
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brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 02:23 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 01:27 AM
brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 01:04 AM
Think this one will have legs.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/07/22/on-eve-of-democratic-convention-wikileaks-releases-thousands-of-documents-about-clinton-the-campaign-and-internal-deliberations/

At this point, I'm simply at a depression point. Never have we been faced with a worse decision. Even if this results in Clinton stepping down or her delegates abandoning her for Sanders (which I don't think will happen in large enough numbers to make a difference), I'm not in favor of having to pick between Sanders and Trump either.
Did you see something in the article that would make Hillary step down?
No. The only way that would occur is if there was immense pressure because the feeling was that she absolutely couldn't win. I don't think that's the case, but it certainly puts that in extreme jeopardy. What I saw was things that will make the hard core Bernie Sanders voters not vote for her. She can't win without capturing a big percentage of those voters. I don't consider a lot of the hard core Sanders supporters as being very rational.

I don't like how Sanders basically stamped his feet before endorsing unless the party platform moved more his way. I don't like the fact that he says one thing ("I will do everything in my power to make sure Donald Trump doesn't get elected") while not exactly doing that.

I think Sanders and Trump have one thing in common: they both call themselves outsiders and call the system corrupt. But it doesn't take a genius to do that. A real candidate says that and then comes up with solutions. I don't agree with Sanders solutions as IMO his solutions are not financially feasible and I don't agree with Trump because....well, other than the whole fourth grade semantics and narcissism, he has zero actual solutions.

I agree with Clinton on most issues. But she has big distrust issues and now e-mails are being released that even if none of the actual things talked about it in terms of plotting against Sanders occurred (you know as well as I do that the same type of internal memos were circulating among the RNC with Trump), the appearance to the public is that he was 'robbed' (despite the reality that he really wasn't even close in terms of actual vote totals). I'm not naive enough to believe those things don't go on or haven't went on previously.....but I'm also not naive enough to think that the American public is smart enough to know that. The biggest sins in politics tend to be not committing the crime, but getting caught. Clinton might well have run out of passes at this point.

For the first time in history, we might be entering an election where neither side knows which is better: winning the election or losing the election. Whoever wins is going to be a very unpopular president.....regardless of what occurs during their presidency. I imagine that neither is actually going to accomplish much, which will breed even more unpopularity.
I read a few more of those emails and agree that this could hurt Hillary even more with Sanders supporters. A lot of analysts have been saying that those people are he difference between winning and losing for her.

Doesn't it seem crazy that both candidates have these huge unfavorability ratings? I mean over half of the population doesn't like each of them respectively but somehow they are the candidates. Sad.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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dreachon Jul 23 2016, 11:54 AM Post #6
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Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 06:38 AM
Doesn't it seem crazy that both candidates have these huge unfavorability ratings? I mean over half of the population doesn't like each of them respectively but somehow they are the candidates. Sad.
Honestly, I don't understand it at all. I think if they had just put their names in the running, we'd be looking at a Paul Ryan vs Elizabeth Warren election.
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brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 01:17 PM Post #7
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dreachon
Jul 23 2016, 11:54 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 06:38 AM
Doesn't it seem crazy that both candidates have these huge unfavorability ratings? I mean over half of the population doesn't like each of them respectively but somehow they are the candidates. Sad.
Honestly, I don't understand it at all. I think if they had just put their names in the running, we'd be looking at a Paul Ryan vs Elizabeth Warren election.
Ryan doesn't want to be president -- remember that he really didn't want be speaker of the house and only did it on the condition that he wouldn't work weekends nor be asked to held to mandatory campaigning for other republican candidates.

It's a position I can respect. I don't believe that Trump really wants to do the work required of the presidency (I do believe the reports that came from the Kasich VP story).

Warren I do believe would have had a real shot at winning, although her entering the race may have pulled more voters from Hillary than Sanders and may have ended with Sanders winning.....or a case where we would have seen nobody with enough delegates entering the convention.
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dreachon Jul 23 2016, 01:46 PM Post #8
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brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 01:17 PM
dreachon
Jul 23 2016, 11:54 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 06:38 AM
Doesn't it seem crazy that both candidates have these huge unfavorability ratings? I mean over half of the population doesn't like each of them respectively but somehow they are the candidates. Sad.
Honestly, I don't understand it at all. I think if they had just put their names in the running, we'd be looking at a Paul Ryan vs Elizabeth Warren election.
Ryan doesn't want to be president -- remember that he really didn't want be speaker of the house and only did it on the condition that he wouldn't work weekends nor be asked to held to mandatory campaigning for other republican candidates.

It's a position I can respect. I don't believe that Trump really wants to do the work required of the presidency (I do believe the reports that came from the Kasich VP story).

Warren I do believe would have had a real shot at winning, although her entering the race may have pulled more voters from Hillary than Sanders and may have ended with Sanders winning.....or a case where we would have seen nobody with enough delegates entering the convention.
I get that about Ryan, but I still think he woulda walked away easily with the nomination had he tried.

Warren def would have pulled voters from Hillary (especially women), but I think also from Sanders. It's even possible Sanders would have pulled out earlier to throw his support to Warren. Either way, I don't think HIllary would be the nominee.
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Mr Gray Jul 23 2016, 02:24 PM Post #9
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dreachon
Jul 23 2016, 01:46 PM
brumdog44
Jul 23 2016, 01:17 PM
dreachon
Jul 23 2016, 11:54 AM
Mr Gray
Jul 23 2016, 06:38 AM
Doesn't it seem crazy that both candidates have these huge unfavorability ratings? I mean over half of the population doesn't like each of them respectively but somehow they are the candidates. Sad.
Honestly, I don't understand it at all. I think if they had just put their names in the running, we'd be looking at a Paul Ryan vs Elizabeth Warren election.
Ryan doesn't want to be president -- remember that he really didn't want be speaker of the house and only did it on the condition that he wouldn't work weekends nor be asked to held to mandatory campaigning for other republican candidates.

It's a position I can respect. I don't believe that Trump really wants to do the work required of the presidency (I do believe the reports that came from the Kasich VP story).

Warren I do believe would have had a real shot at winning, although her entering the race may have pulled more voters from Hillary than Sanders and may have ended with Sanders winning.....or a case where we would have seen nobody with enough delegates entering the convention.
I get that about Ryan, but I still think he woulda walked away easily with the nomination had he tried.

Warren def would have pulled voters from Hillary (especially women), but I think also from Sanders. It's even possible Sanders would have pulled out earlier to throw his support to Warren. Either way, I don't think HIllary would be the nominee.
I want to agree with you on Ryan, but then again the way this primary went, I've gotta say I really don't know. The reasons that I think Ryan would have won are along the same lines as Rubio and Jeb yet they got trounced. I really don't know what to think anymore.
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The body knows what fighters don't: how to protect itself. A neck can only twist so far. Twist it just a hair more and the body says, "Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses." It's called the knockout mechanism.
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sirbrianwilson Jul 23 2016, 02:45 PM Post #10
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I think Trump would have still taken down Ryan for all the same reasons everyone else fell.

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brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 03:48 PM Post #11
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I don't think Trump would have beaten Ryan. A lot would have depended upon when other candidates would have dropped out. I would suspect that if Ryan had run, Rubio either would have not run or would have withdrawn very, very early. Kasich would have been out a whole earlier, IMO -- Kasich voters were basically the ones who were voting against Trump and Cruz. Numbers I've seen on his favorability rating have him at about +8% among all voters. Ted Cruz finished second with bad favorability ratings and like Trump, not many friends among the RNC.
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brumdog44 Jul 23 2016, 06:24 PM Post #12
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Right now, I don't think the story is gaining as much traction as I thought it would. Even Foxnews only had it as their lead story for about 8 hours. The most damning e-mail was from a DNC staffer that asked if the DNC should plant someone to ask Sanders about his religion -- but that never actually happened. Items from Diane Wasserman Schultz while certainly not good, the worst seemed to be not aimed at Sanders but at a top campaign aide he had (Jeff Weaver), in particular to his reaction of what she felt was ignoring the Sanders' delegates behavior at the Nevada convention.

It's certainly a blow to the Clinton campaign but I don't think it will be as big as I thought it would be.

What's sad, IMO, is that through the whole time, #6yearsof1D trended above #DNCleaks.
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sirbrianwilson Jul 24 2016, 01:10 AM Post #13
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Supposedly this is leak 1 of 3
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brumdog44 Jul 24 2016, 02:08 AM Post #14
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BTW, what is everyone thoughts on wikileaks itself?

Regardless of what content we are talking about, I'm not thrilled about an organization built on unethical means and often illegal means to give confidential documents. Doesn't matter to me who the information is from. It was wrong when they leaked e-mails from Sarah Palin's account. It was wrong to provide a forum for the release of information from Bradley Manning.

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dreachon Jul 24 2016, 06:44 AM Post #15
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brumdog44
Jul 24 2016, 02:08 AM
BTW, what is everyone thoughts on wikileaks itself?

Regardless of what content we are talking about, I'm not thrilled about an organization built on unethical means and often illegal means to give confidential documents. Doesn't matter to me who the information is from. It was wrong when they leaked e-mails from Sarah Palin's account. It was wrong to provide a forum for the release of information from Bradley Manning.

Apparently they tweeted some anti-semitic stuff yesterday. I saw it, but honestly didn't understand it. Still, not good.
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