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Feminism debate
Topic Started: Jan 12 2017, 04:25 PM (83 Views)
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http://s15.zetaboards.com/PC_Deliberations/topic/10101031/1/ - Discussion

Everyone who didn't participate in the debate itself should read this thread before posting in its entirety. Who do you think was the most persuasive and made the better arguments as pertaining to each individual question? Who answered critical questions better? Who provided accurate studies to support their more objective claims?

To make this poll as accurate as possible, I will be counting results in posts, not results from the poll above. Everyone is allowed to vote and comment here except for those who were involved.
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Subliminal

People who hate feminism are just as annoying as feminists are. xD
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Claire386
Jan 12 2017, 08:58 PM
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Jan 12 2017, 08:45 PM
First question: What is feminism?

Claire and Kiris answered using dictionary definitions, that is true. That is not a bad thing if that's what they believe and if I wanted a summary I would have asked for one instead. I don't think there's any clear winner here as I was asking both teams how they viewed feminism which is not an argument.

Second question: How do you feel feminism works to achieve its supposed goal of equality between the sexes?

Team B (Con) addresses the points that feminists don't tackle men's issues and female advantages therefor feminism does nothing to achieve equality. Claire wrote a very informative and long post explaining how she feels feminism does fight to achieve equality for women and for men. Her post was much more detailed and highlighted some of the many gendered issues that exist both for women and for men. Kiris then went on to add that feminism is particularly important in certain countries where women have less rights than they do in the west. Team A wins this round easily for being more informative and detailed.

Team A


Third question: Do you feel that feminist teachings should continue to be taught in colleges / universities? Why or why not?

Claire's main point is that change can be made first through education. I like that point. Andrew goes on to explain how feminist teachings are often dishonest and don't address the full picture, such feminists trying to get women into STEM jobs while ignoring jobs that are dirty and dangerous. I think it is absolutely fair to scrutinize feminist studies, everything deserves to be questioned, so for that I give this round to team B.

Team B

Fourth question: Is there a rape culture or is it a myth?

While I agree with Claire's point that doesn't change the fact that rapists will always exist because humankind isn't perfect. In my opinion women do have to learn how to defend themselves no matter how much feminists may not want to see it that way. If they are worried about this sort of thing because when a rapist makes his move there won't be a police man in sight.

Team B

Fifth question: How do you envision America in a feminist society?

I felt that both responses to this question had a degree of bias. Claire pictures a feminist society as sort of an egalitarian utopic society. Handyman sees it as a gynocracy where women have more rights than men. I see myself more in agreement with Claire, because in a feminist society men would be feminists too so it's only reasonable to believe that gender relations would improve in such an environment so things would surely look good for men too in such a society.

Team A

Wage Gap Question: I am not sure it's an important issue rather or not women are 'socialized' into being less ambitious workers because it's something that revolves around choice and not oppression and I see it as a non-issue for the most part. I don't fully agree with Claire here.

Egalitarian Question: Warlizard's response of "Obviously men aren't going to join a movement that helps the other sex and marginalizes the other." really hits the nail on the lead as to why men aren't too fond of feminism and prefer the label egalitarian.


Team B

I feel that Team B had a 3/5 win over Team A, however Team A destroyed team B on the second question. Team A also provided a link whereas team B provided none whatsoever, and Team A was much more persuasive whereas team B had a more aggressive style. I think both sides could have done better especially team A who had a few great posts and many weak posts that seemingly lacked effort. Ruling this a stalemate.
Your post is very helpful... thanks for the unbiased analysis and I feel bad about this now. There are many things I could have explained better and in more detail but I didn't have the time or the motivation to do so.

When we're discussing rape culture I really should have clarified that yes women should be encouraged to defend themselves, and I'm aware that some women lie about this sort of thing. I could have also explained that rape culture is a bigger problem in certain middle eastern and African nations and much less severe in the western world.

I think I the reason I didn't answer well with the egalitarian question is because if I'm going to be honest I didn't know how to answer that question and I have come to the realization a while ago that feminism really is a woman's movement even though it does help men in some ways.

If we want to become a truly respected gender egalitarian movement we have to gain men's trust, because without that trust the movement will remain a polarizing force. I could have done better here even though I knew this entire time that chances of a pro feminist debater winning was low, and yet I dragged Addie into this knowing she had no time on her hands.

Probably not a big deal to her though but still.
Admitting your mistake is the best thing you can do. Put effort into everything and think before you make a decision.
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BobbLeSapp
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Claire did seem very lazy with most of her answers, but we saw how good she could do when she applies some effort. Kiris put in even less effort. Team B came off as more passionate and both teams came off as dogmatic. Team B was more relatable to me as a man and more straightforward with rhetoric that pictured closer to imagine outcomes while team A's rhetoric relied more on theoretical possibilities. Team B was but it's very hard to defend feminism when you're debating against well informed people who don't subscribe to far-left ideology. Addie is going to have a lot of trouble defending BLM for this same reason, as the odds are naturally stacked against her.
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Master Hand
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Exactly.. I knew we would win no matter what because you can't defend feminism.. lol that's like trying to defend marxism, socialism and communism it's impossible because they're all shitty ideologies. How the hell do you even attempt to defend things like wage gap and rape culture lol you can't defend things that are obviously bullshit and no matter what femitards say the facts remain on our side when it comes to those issues.
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Warlizard
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Master Hand
Jan 13 2017, 12:06 PM
Exactly.. I knew we would win no matter what because you can't defend feminism.. lol that's like trying to defend marxism, socialism and communism it's impossible because they're all shitty ideologies. How the hell do you even attempt to defend things like wage gap and rape culture lol you can't defend things that are obviously bullshit and no matter what femitards say the facts remain on our side when it comes to those issues.
That my friend is the biggest flaw of feminism. The movement is plagued with ideas that have been proven wrong.

lol who voted for team A?
Edited by Warlizard, Jan 13 2017, 12:22 PM.
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