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Day 2: Climbing the Mountain
Topic Started: Oct 23 2016, 10:46 PM (2,064 Views)
Hinata Hyuga
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Naruto
With 12 players left, it takes 7 to lynch.

Hanamichi Sakuragi (1): Yoshikage Kira

Not Voting (11): Astro Boy, Claire Stanfield, Dandy, Dr. Tenma, Edward Weevil, Hanamichi Sakuragi, Isaac Dian, Kakashi Hatake, Lelouch vi Britannia, Mimi, Yuuki Rito
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Lelouch vi Britannia
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Code Geass
Dr. Tenma
 
will say this, people with power roles don't always want to draw all that attention to themselves for no reason. Mr Basketball seems to think less active players are more justified to lynch which seems like a pretty bad idea.


I'd also like to question you about this. While many of us were saying that we need everyone to talk and interact if we want to find the mafia, and even you kept calling out "fluff posts", here you seem to be giving an excuse for low activity? This is in sharp contrast to, say, Mimi's post:

Mimi
 
Bottom line is that I find a larger group of loose activity to be less useful down the line than a smaller group of actually active individuals. Otherwise at one point the valuable ones get knocked out and we are at the mercy of inactive to even lynch.

Also, natural observation throughout the progress of the game means a lot less if we establish that it is fine for people to hang along being unhelpful. Gives us less to work with, not more.
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Mimi
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Digimon
Vote lynch: LeLouch

One thing is fostering discussion, but what you are doing now seems like a massive distraction.

I don't expect a full wagon yet, more than anything I want to understand what is the point of what you are asking because at this point it just looks not only like fluff, but like someone distracting anyone back into a conversation that will just lead to recycled answers.
I will let Tenma answer your post to him before I comment on that.
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Lelouch vi Britannia
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Mimi
Oct 24 2016, 06:02 AM
Vote lynch: LeLouch

One thing is fostering discussion, but what you are doing now seems like a massive distraction.

I don't expect a full wagon yet, more than anything I want to understand what is the point of what you are asking because at this point it just looks not only like fluff, but like someone distracting anyone back into a conversation that will just lead to recycled answers.
I will let Tenma answer your post to him before I comment on that.
Are you referring to my question to everyone or the one to Tenma?
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Mimi
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Digimon
I find both questionable but I am not touching the Tenmon question until he does.
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Lelouch vi Britannia
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Assuming you mean the general question, I asked that because we didn't have many leads so I was trying to glean whatever I could from yesterday. It annoyed me that many people skipped over that question yesterday so I was hoping to get at least some of them to respond today.

There's also a benefit in having the few who did answer reiterate their points from yesterday (possible scumslip).

Basically, I wanted everyone's positions on lynching and priorities written out clearly. For example (Lynch inactive > Lynch low active > no lynch) or (No Lynch > lynch low active). I'm surprised you wouldn't find this useful.
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Dr. Tenma
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Monster
Lelouch vi Britannia
Oct 24 2016, 04:51 AM
Dr. Tenma
Oct 24 2016, 03:44 AM
Your very first post less than 2 hours into the day was to vote on Guilmon for not posting in day 0. Later you tried to argue that the semi open setup gives us more reason to lynch because the mafia would never use him as a safe kill. But it never would make sense in the first place for mafia to lynch a complete inactive, and actually the fact that we know all the mafia are goons means we don't have to worry about roleblocks etc. and since we probably have a cop, the more reports the better. Don't get me wrong as I said I fully support lynching a total inactive but your reasoning there was backwards because if anything the setup tilts the argument the other way.
Look who the mafia lynched today. Papugg, one of the least active players. It makes total sense for mafia to kill inactives in a closed setup as a "safe kill." The people posting and putting themselves out there, might be baiting the mafia to kill them, and have a power such as bomb, gun owner, etc. that benefits the town with their death. Here the mafia don't have to worry about these sort of roles, so killing inactives isn't as beneficial for them. However, killing low-actives makes it harder to trace who the mafia is, given the sparse interaction.


Quote:
 
and since we probably have a cop, the more reports the better.

I'm not sure what you mean by this, can you clarify?

[/b]
Quote:
 
And at the risk of sounding hypocritical because the replacement never did happen and I never did vote, I stand by my accusation that your inflexibility with your vote was stubborn at the time.


He didn't show up on Day 0 (the day where you are supposed to show up so that we know you're playing). I was actually surprised we started Day 1 without all the members signing in; I thought that was the point of sign-in day. Then, about a third of Day 1 goes by, we hear we may get a replacement, but I wasn't convinced. Call me cynical, but I saw what happened with Ohm last game. [/color=purple]

Quote:
 
And now that I think about it other than commenting once on Dandy's joke vote on you, you were pretty one-track on Guilmon just like Weevil, I wonder if you are buddies.


Well I also called out Kakashi's prioritizing alleged unhelpfulness over complete inactivity.
I also

- there is a really big difference between someone completely missing which is what i meant by "complete inactive" and Pappug who only had 2 posts but voted to lynch and was all business. Going for less active players can make sense for mafia but going for someone missing who the town can't read and will always have to wonder the alignment of and at worst have to lynch later just due to numbers would just be doing the town a favor like I said before. I mean just look at the previous game. So yeah I'm not disagreeing with most of your paragraph but the point is regardless of setup it is a straight up bad play for mafia to get rid of AWOL players so the current setup doesn't provide additional justification for lynching Guilmon.

- I meant that as much time as we can buy the cop to stay around and get reports the better especially since we know he can't be blocked or misled in any way... from that perspective no-lynching on the first day can be given extra merit because the more players the mafia have to choose from for a kill the better the cop's odds are of surviving and if they really are naive enough to get rid of a completely absent player for us then thats perfect. Again i personally can't stand players who don't actually play the game but I'm just saying your arguments that revolve around setup don't hold water.

- about Kakashi yes that's true and in fairness you deserve the credit for that but at the same time your entire post revolved around why Weevil instead of Guilmon and can be seen as you trying to convince him to switch to Guilmon which in the end is consistent with what I was saying. Also this could look like you defending Weevil if we look at it from the previous angle I mentioned of you two having the same agenda but I don't want to automatically take a reasonable reaction to Kakashi and discredit it like that, plus we still haven't heard from Kakashi, but it's on my mind.

Lelouch vi Britannia
Oct 24 2016, 05:03 AM
Dr. Tenma
 
will say this, people with power roles don't always want to draw all that attention to themselves for no reason. Mr Basketball seems to think less active players are more justified to lynch which seems like a pretty bad idea.


I'd also like to question you about this. While many of us were saying that we need everyone to talk and interact if we want to find the mafia, and even you kept calling out "fluff posts", here you seem to be giving an excuse for low activity? This is in sharp contrast to, say, Mimi's post:

Mimi
 
Bottom line is that I find a larger group of loose activity to be less useful down the line than a smaller group of actually active individuals. Otherwise at one point the valuable ones get knocked out and we are at the mercy of inactive to even lynch.

Also, natural observation throughout the progress of the game means a lot less if we establish that it is fine for people to hang along being unhelpful. Gives us less to work with, not more.

That part you're quoting was based on a stupid misunderstanding by me, I thought Sakuragi was arguing that we should lynch less active players because they don't contribute as much in which case I was saying less activity doesn't necessarily mean scum and yes power roles might want to keep a lower profile. It wasn't really an excuse for townies to not be useful and contribute because that's always important but not posting a mile a minute is not in itself scummy. but of course if the town is starved for activity and scum hunting is severely impacted by it then of course it's everyones duty to put themselves out there more. Anyway as I said it was based on a misunderstanding and Sakuragi was talking about mafia kills not town lynches so my point against him is moot but since you asked I figured I'd explain.
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Mimi
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Digimon
And there it is, well done Tenmon.

Lelouch: it gave me bad vibes that your question aimed to push a silly view on Tenmon when what you were quoting was something clearly out of context.

All in all, even with your explanation of what your goal was, the entire conversations that you are aiming to start are borderline repetitive, and I don't understand why if the main intent was to possibly catch a scumslip you could possibly just go and blatantly state that, thereby killing the possibility of anyone scumslipping from that. Even then, if someone DID scumslip from your question, its an easy thing to backtrack from it by saying that views changed, given that we now have the knowledge of the sort of profile that mafia went after.
A question for which the answer is bound to change as a result of hindsight makes no sense to me as helpful in conversation for what is happening right now.

I would like to hear from others as to whether they see value in your line of questioning that I am failing to see. If others are more convincing than you are I'm ok unvoting.
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Lelouch vi Britannia
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Mimi
Oct 24 2016, 06:42 AM
And there it is, well done Tenmon.

Lelouch: it gave me bad vibes that your question aimed to push a silly view on Tenmon when what you were quoting was something clearly out of context.

All in all, even with your explanation of what your goal was, the entire conversations that you are aiming to start are borderline repetitive, and I don't understand why if the main intent was to possibly catch a scumslip you could possibly just go and blatantly state that, thereby killing the possibility of anyone scumslipping from that. Even then, if someone DID scumslip from your question, its an easy thing to backtrack from it by saying that views changed, given that we now have the knowledge of the sort of profile that mafia went after.
A question for which the answer is bound to change as a result of hindsight makes no sense to me as helpful in conversation for what is happening right now.

I would like to hear from others as to whether they see value in your line of questioning that I am failing to see. If others are more convincing than you are I'm ok unvoting.
It wasn't a "silly view on Tenmon;" I was taken aback by what he wrote. And yes, I did read the post after it and understood the context, but I considered the fact that his post was a response to a misunderstanding irrelevant to his view which he stated - Lynching players for low activity is a bad idea.

Which he has now "explained" by modifying and expanding the meaning of that statement to now mean posters who don't post a mile a minute, ie. players who post and contribute, yet not as much as the highest-posting players.

If that was the original intent, I don't feel his words conveyed that very well. What I got from that instead was almost an excuse for other to be less active (covering up your role). Which is inconsistent with other this he said. Which is why I called him out.
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Edward Weevil
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One Piece
Lelouch vi Britannia
Oct 24 2016, 03:17 AM
Ok so this question was posed yesterday; some stated their stance, most didn't. For simplicity's sake, I ask everyone to answer.

Had Guilmon's replacement shown up at least 6 hours before the Day End, would you have then voted No Lynch or pursued another lynch?

Knowing what we know now, I'd have gone for NoLynch close to day end. I prefer Day 1 no lynch than lynching without a good basis.
I unvoted if replacement showed up i dont think we get anything voteing no lynch near end of the day
Sorry i have to move to a new home today so i cant be as active as i was
To be honest im confused about kakashis question yesterday i think he misunderstod something
And i kinda dont understand why mafia goes for a inactive player kill in night 1 when they can kill an active player in order to lower the activity and stay safe its not like we have a bomb
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