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Day 2: Climbing the Mountain
Topic Started: Oct 23 2016, 10:46 PM (2,063 Views)
Lelouch vi Britannia
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Code Geass
Mimi
Oct 24 2016, 06:42 AM
All in all, even with your explanation of what your goal was, the entire conversations that you are aiming to start are borderline repetitive, and I don't understand why if the main intent was to possibly catch a scumslip you could possibly just go and blatantly state that, thereby killing the possibility of anyone scumslipping from that. Even then, if someone DID scumslip from your question, its an easy thing to backtrack from it by saying that views changed, given that we now have the knowledge of the sort of profile that mafia went after.
A question for which the answer is bound to change as a result of hindsight makes no sense to me as helpful in conversation for what is happening right now.
Yeah, I debated for a little while if I should include the possible scumslip line, but figured I'd be hounded unless I gave my actual reasoning. That was not my Main Objective of the question, it was still more to have a reference point of everyone's stances.

Look, you claim you want to engage the people in conversation and force interactions. I'm trying to engage people and again, half the cast never answered that yesterday and half haven't yet posted today. So I don't see how it's repetitive?

But if you insist thatm my question is so bad, where's yours? Or is the most valuable thing you have to say is that I have nothing valuable to say?
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Claire Stanfield
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Baccano!
Lelouch vi Britannia
 
Had Guilmon's replacement shown up at least 6 hours before the Day End, would you have then voted No Lynch or pursued another lynch?
6 hours before Day End? I would have kept my vote there out of sheer spite alone. But more importantly to not have wasted Day 1 which mostly revolved around Guilmon. It's unfortunate that he flipped blue but I don't regret my actions.

Hanamichi Sakuragi
 
Not surprised by it at all. I completely forgot Patrick Star existed, and his death was pretty fitting. There are several of us who haven't really taken a huge role and/or made any enemies, myself included, that are still viable targets. So I'd encourage everyone to share your perspectives on the whole matter, so when one of us is taken away the next night, we might get more of a clue as to why they died and who would have any particular reason to kill them.

And due to Patrick Star's death, there's really nothing I can go on or point out that might lead to a justifiable lynch; someone would have to slip up or otherwise convince me to do so. Sucks but better to lose just one townie the next night than having a high likelihood of losing two townies like we just did now.
Others have pointed it out already and I, too, strongly dislike what you're doing here. Pappug died who was not very vocal so you're saying that nothing can be done on day 2? I must wonder if any particular player's death would have prompted you to contribute today. There may or may not be reports incoming but solely relying on that and on random scum slips will get Town nowhere.

Vote Lynch: Hanamichi Sakuragi
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Mimi
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Digimon
Lelouch vi Britannia
Oct 24 2016, 07:17 AM
Yeah, I debated for a little while if I should include the possible scumslip line, but figured I'd be hounded unless I gave my actual reasoning. That was not my Main Objective of the question, it was still more to have a reference point of everyone's stances.

Look, you claim you want to engage the people in conversation and force interactions. I'm trying to engage people and again, half the cast never answered that yesterday and half haven't yet posted today. So I don't see how it's repetitive?

But if you insist thatm my question is so bad, where's yours? Or is the most valuable thing you have to say is that I have nothing valuable to say?
I find it repetitive in that all of yesterday was spent talking about that topic. Not to mention that values like lynching for inactivity or not hold significantly less value on Day 2, at which point you ideally have had enough time to observe others to make better conclusions.
Have you not been able to parse anything from yesterday for conclusions then? Is that what you are trying to establish by restarting the same conversation?

As for your question, I mentioned already in a previous post that I do have someone else I want to bring attention to, I just want to see what others are talking aobut first so I dont get caught up in just one individual. One day of being in the limelight of discussion was fine, but that puts me in a situation where its more difficult to just observe other conversation. I will definitely bring up the issue before today ends, though, so just give me some time.

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Dr. Tenma
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Monster
Lelouch vi Britannia
Oct 24 2016, 07:01 AM
And yes, I did read the post after it and understood the context, but I considered the fact that his post was a response to a misunderstanding irrelevant to his view which he stated - Lynching players for low activity is a bad idea.

Which he has now "explained" by modifying and expanding the meaning of that statement to now mean posters who don't post a mile a minute, ie. players who post and contribute, yet not as much as the highest-posting players.

If that was the original intent, I don't feel his words conveyed that very well. What I got from that instead was almost an excuse for other to be less active (covering up your role). Which is inconsistent with other this he said. Which is why I called him out.

I have not modified anything it's you who is taking a narrow interpretation and conveniently making me look bad in the process. Think what you will but what I said is true of game strategy, and appropriate activity levels will always be a variable and subjective thing for any given player based on things like getting reads and keeping the town focused and staying alive to give reports or protect and general day activity as well as number of players i mean I could go on and on but you seem hell bent on making me look bad and I think it's a valid point that this is becoming distracting, maybe even intentionally so instead i'll just do this

Vote Lynch: Lelouch vi Britannia

Meanwhile we still have players like Astro boy who only made one post that I found questionable and is nowhere to be seen today. If you are so obsessed with activity he might be a good place to start, just a tip
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Hinata Hyuga
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Naruto
With 12 players left, it takes 7 to lynch.

Hanamichi Sakuragi (2): Yoshikage Kira, Claire Stanfield
Lelouch vi Britannia (2): Mimi, Dr. Tenma

Not Voting (8): Astro Boy, Dandy, Edward Weevil, Hanamichi Sakuragi, Isaac Dian, Kakashi Hatake, Lelouch vi Britannia, Yuuki Rito
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Dandy
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Space Dandy
Lelouch#13
 
Had Guilmon's replacement shown up at least 6 hours before the Day End, would you have then voted No Lynch or pursued another lynch?


No lynch. What kind of case could you make against someone in 6 hours?

Yuuki#14
 
What, did you skim it?

Dandy: yesterday when you asked Pappug to elaborate on his vote against Guilmon, why didn't you ask the same to Lelouch, who had voted previously?


I was busy and since he didn´t quote me question, I just didn´t relate it right away. A mere distraction.

I didn´t ask Pappug to elaborate in his vote against Guilmon, I asked him to elaborate on his idea that "with this kind of setup lynching is our best and only weapon in discovering Mafia.".
He said this and afterwards claimed that "Most of us are Vanilla Townies. Besides the Cop we don't have any powers to use at Night as far I know, so if we want information we can't just sit around hoping to survive through the Night as we peek under each other's blankets. We have to lynch.".

Two pretty strong statements and yet he barely dwelt on it. He seemed to "glue" himself on Mimi´s statements regarding the same subject to justify his position.

Mimi#28
 

I would like to hear from others as to whether they see value in your line of questioning that I am failing to see. If others are more convincing than you are I'm ok unvoting.


I don´t.
I was never a fan of general questions, unless in very specific situations. This is not one.
We still have a lot of members, and a question like this is just bound to get a lot of answers with little to no substance regarding a subject that was already discussed to exhaustion.
I also agree with you when you said that it´s easy to backtrack from a contradictory statement. Only an incredibly amateurish mafia would fall in a "trap" like this one.


@Sakuragi: You have two votes on you right now. How do you feel about this situation? Do you understand the reasoning behind it?

@Yuuki: Today you claimed that "I don't think much can be gathered from the wagon against Guilmon, outside of finding out who is willing to lynch an inactive. Nobody's vote against him seemed suspicious to me."
Yet yesterday you were the forth person to support vocally a lynch on Guilmon and the forth to cast a vote on him.

Yesterday you also agreed with a Mimi´s post that said:
"Scaring meek boys who refuse to participate or help into being active does multiple things

1- the bad guys wont have an easy kill where they can just knock off someone who hasnt done anything, and forces them to commit to a kill that can actually be traced or give us information
2- it lets us know what we can expect of our shipmates and who aims to be consistently valuable as opposed to those who only become valuable when they want to hide mean intentions
3- Our ship and our friends will all be stronger if we commit as a group to help or accept our loss if we fail to keep up".


Yet you seem very noncommittal on expanding your views on the whole thing.
I can only assume that when you talked about how we only found out who was willing to lynch an inactive, you were talking about yourself.

Also, you are still talking about Guilmon, but you made no mention of Pappug´s death. Why is that?
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Yuuki Rito
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To Love-ru
Dandy
Oct 24 2016, 03:52 PM
@Yuuki: Today you claimed that "I don't think much can be gathered from the wagon against Guilmon, outside of finding out who is willing to lynch an inactive. Nobody's vote against him seemed suspicious to me."
Yet yesterday you were the forth person to support vocally a lynch on Guilmon and the forth to cast a vote on him. (1)

Yesterday you also agreed with a Mimi´s post that said:
"Scaring meek boys who refuse to participate or help into being active does multiple things

1- the bad guys wont have an easy kill where they can just knock off someone who hasnt done anything, and forces them to commit to a kill that can actually be traced or give us information
2- it lets us know what we can expect of our shipmates and who aims to be consistently valuable as opposed to those who only become valuable when they want to hide mean intentions
3- Our ship and our friends will all be stronger if we commit as a group to help or accept our loss if we fail to keep up".


Yet you seem very noncommittal on expanding your views on the whole thing.
I can only assume that when you talked about how we only found out who was willing to lynch an inactive, you were talking about yourself. (2)

Also, you are still talking about Guilmon, but you made no mention of Pappug´s death. Why is that? (3)
1. I supported lynching an inactive person, yeah, but I never said I was voting to gain information. I voted because having a completely inactive player is a threat to the town, and my goal is to eliminate that is it not?
I merely stated that I don't see what info can be gathered from the wagon. Others might find information in it that can help, but I personally can't.

2. No, that's all I see that we found out. I can't see any pattern or method to his wagon, and it was a seemingly cut and dry lynch. We can of course gather things based on other conversations that went on yesterday, but from the wagon we can't.

3. I don't see what there is to talk about regarding Pappug's death. He was a fairly 'untraceable' kill. The only person that can be shown as having any direct link to him is you, Dandy, and that was a very small Q+A.
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Kakashi Hatake
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Naruto
My apologies for my inactivity, it was a good book

Dandy : Im sure I explained my reasoning pretty well, but I'll humor you. Weevil's post when he voted Guilmon made it seem like he hadn't read the thread about a replacement even if he had talked about it before. It put me off and I wanted a better explanation from him. I knew full well a wagon wasn't going to build on him, but I wanted to make sure he answered.

At this point, my opinion is that there is at least 1 mafia that is extremely active while their buddies are hiding in inactivity.
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Mimi
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Digimon
so much time and no one talks. So be it then, time for me to share.

Yesterday when answering a Dandy question I phrased a couple of benefits when it comes to lynching someone. The first of these involved the fact that keeping people active would make mafia kills more significant in terms of providing info.

Case in point, we know have Pappug dead, someone who posted little while still having a stance.

But thats beyond the point for now. What I found interesting at the time, is that for the most part when responding to this question, everyone who responded to it took the angle that the information gain from lynching someone was not worth the loss.
Its something I would consider a townie-focused stance.

HOWEVER, there were two people who behaved outside of this norm, one of them rather blatantly to the point it confused another. I speak of course of Sakuragi.
Basketball san's posts about this bit of information focused nearly entirely on what would or would not be a safe mafia kill, and I saw him mention "safer kill" and "safe kill" in at least two posts.
The second post was so blatantly unclear about the intent that Tenmon assumed he meant lynch (something which, again, is a townie-focused mentality), but then unfortunately Tenmon corrected himself before I was able to see Sakuragi aim to correct it himself. Oh well. It may still stand as interesting that instead of responding to Tenmon at any point, Sakuragi's next post was instead fluff about asking me out on a date. Ha, as if!

Basically, what bothered me is that of so many players, Sakuragi latched first on the mafia-focused line of thinking while others were instead pursuing the townie-focused logic behind the idea. And not only once either as qualification, but twice.

And then the fun part, is that when rereading D1 I found that Sakuragi wasnt the only one. Lelouch also did the same thing in one of his posts.

doesnt it stand to reason that someone in the mafia team would by default think of their benefit first before being able to consider the angles of others?

Given my posting ability at the time I am unable to really quote extensively, but if desired I am willing to provide concrete evidence about the posts I speak of.

So then, at this point I ask to the rest of you what you think about this.
Sakuragi in particular... two votes on you and now I give you another thing to answer to. Time to talk, little buddy.
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Lelouch vi Britannia
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Code Geass
For me that is very easily explained. I felt it best to lynch the inactive, and wanted to provide possible other reasons it was in our best interests to off him than the ones already posted.
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