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Day 5: Another One Bites the Dust
Topic Started: Nov 1 2016, 07:30 PM (825 Views)
Lelouch vi Britannia
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Code Geass
For clarification, I mean vote near the end of the day, and after some responses and discussion, not right now lol
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Yuuki Rito
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To Love-ru
Wouldn't you only be putting the second of four votes onto a wagon?

Lelouche
 
@Yuuki:You spent far more posts saying that you were pursuing your lead suspect Kakashi than actually pursuing him. It is still a possibility he is mafia. Aside from inactivity, what exactly do you see as scumlike in him?

Not much. The inactivity wasn't really an issue. When I noticed that he had been completely absent for two days and brought it up, I almost immediately received notification that a replacement was being searched for.
I stated those suspects on Day 2, and as such Kakashi was suspicious because of how he treated his Weevil vote. I questioned him in a half-hearted attempt to garner activity from him.
Out of my three suspects (him, Weevil and Kira), he's the lowest on the radar. That said, I do recall noticing something on my reread, but I didn't write it down. I'll search again after writing this up.

With my 'list of reasons to lynch Isaac', that last line ('sum up the other arguments') wasn't meant to say "I just summed up their argument", but "add their points to this list".
I was never really undecided on Lelouch/Isaac. From the first time I mentioned it, I was 'pro-Lelouch', after reading his arguments.

Kira
 
Finally, today, Day 5. In the beginning Claire just focusses on Kakashi, Yuuki still only Nr. 3 on his suspect list. Yuuki then clearly misinterprets my post towards my stance on Claire yesterday. And from the three person he questions, the question towards Claire seems, well, rather forced.

That's because it was. I didn't want to say "I suspected Claire, but now I don't, and I'm not going to follow up on him anymore."
The reason I am getting a town read on Claire is because I specifically searched for incriminating evidence, and found little. The question related to what little I did find.

Kira
 
Yuuki in turn also throws away his gut feeling about Claire - although mentioning today that him and me were still his highest suspects until rereading.

Please quote the part where I threw my suspicions away there, because I'm not seeing it. I mention that I didn't recall anything suspicious about him, and that's about it. Only today would I be willing to throw away my gut feeling, and that's because I've actually read through the game and trust my opinion more.

Furthermore, Claire wasn't the only person I had little interaction with. As has been pointed out, I've been playing a game of 'answering questions' for the most part, and haven't really done much with anybody that hasn't approached me.
I haven't interacted with Weevil, Kakashi, Tenma, Astro, or Pappug; I've only really mentioned two of those more than once. My 'not interacting' argument is void based on that.
I acknowledge the other points you've made, though.

I will vote for Kira ~9 hours from the time I post this.
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Hinata Hyuga
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Naruto
With 7 players left, it takes 4 to lynch.

Yoshikage Kira (1): Mimi
Yuuki Rito(1): Yoshikage Kira

Not Voting (5): Claire Stanfield, Edward Weevil, Kakashi Hatake, Lelouch vi Britannia, Yuuki Rito

About 13 hours left.
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Mimi
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Digimon
Yoshikage Kira
Nov 3 2016, 02:44 AM
First off, yes, Mimi. I didn't think Claire was mafia yesterday, but I also thought Isaac was. His death changed my outlook on many things I thought to be true. I'll rather change my opinion on someone, then let them slip through.

Anyways, my thoughts about Claire and Yuuki being scum buddies has interestingly to do with their lack of interaction with each other as well as Tenma.

Day 1 has no interactions between Yuuki, Claire and Tenma at all. Claire only mentions Yuuki and Tenma here together with anybody else, but as two unhighlighted players (fair for the time however).

On Day 2 Tenma, confirmed scum, once addressed every player with only a single post on that day at the time. Thing is he forgot Claire at first. I'd argue a scum buddy is someone you could easily overlook in such a post. No interaction with Yuuki again, who didn't really do anything that day. One thing that stands about him, is that his gut feeling about Claire and me starts here. No further reasoning, possibly mentioning another scum to seemingly put a distance between each other.
Tenma and Claire were the first people who shared my opinions about Sakuragi.

Day 3 actually had a bit more interaction at the least. First off, Tenma jumped at Weevil during that day, Claire mentioned he had to resist voting him too. And at this point, I don't think Tenma was trying to throw us off by voting a scum buddy here, it seems rather genuine (which only leaves me with Yuuki/Claire as team up now anyways, Kakashi not included). What they talked about each other was rather tame however, mostly having to do with the Isaac/Lelouch debate. Here Claire is defending Yuuki's behaviour a bit though.

Claire says he just finds Yuuki rather, giving more attention to Isaac, Weevil and me. Yuuki in turn also throws away his gut feeling about Claire - although mentioning today that him and me were still his highest suspects until rereading. That is all concerning their interactions on that day.

Finally, today, Day 5. In the beginning Claire just focusses on Kakashi, Yuuki still only Nr. 3 on his suspect list. Yuuki then clearly misinterprets my post towards my stance on Claire yesterday. And from the three person he questions, the question towards Claire seems, well, rather forced.

All in all, with 2 mafia left and only 4 viable candidates, Claire and Yuuki show a clear history of not talking much about each other. It's okay that your suspects are your suspects, but the behaviour you two had with each other during this game - at least to me - feels like intentionally avoiding. Your stance on each other throughout can be boiled down to "Seems town" and "Maybe scum, but...nah".

If the rest still wants to lynch me, fair enough...but I would really appreciate if you do in Yuuki first, and also not blindly believe in Claire being town atm. If Yuuki turns out town I swear to not even try voting someone tommorow, but to just accept my fate.

Vote Lynch: Yuuki Rito



I see other people responded a couple of good points, but I want to go back to something you failed to completely address in your response.

Namely, there's the fact you still treat the issue as Claire being scum BECAUSE of interactions with Yuuki and Tenma (or lack thereof?), but then that fails under multiple avenues
- Weevil has easily as much of an issue being pinned as interacting with nearly anyone, including Yuuki who he expressed not to know about in day 3. You clear Weevil because Tenma wanted to lynch him and it seemed "genuine"... so? He could have very genuinely been eager to bus a mafia scumbuddy who stood out in their sheer apathy towards the game. So clearing Weevil from that does not hold any water, and goes to show how you are intent on keeping focus on Yuuki and Claire pairing.

And again, this is the rub you find yourself in that I already pointed out. It is obvious that with Kakashi like he is and Lelouch and I cleared, you guys are suddenly extremely low on people to fly at for a mislynch.
What makes your arguments completely in line with this narrative is that everything you have against Claire right now is speculative based on Yuuki being a scumbuddy. On Claire himself? To my understanding you have absolutely nothing on him vis a vis how he has played.

Sure, perhaps to you that's irrelevant but you still have consider that what you are asking us to do is to weigh the entirety of your game, a game where you committed extremely little to anything, had meager activity, and someone who has been consistently seen as scummy by multiple people for multiple days now... and you are asking us to ignore that in order to allow for your speculation against an individual so town you have to make a case out of nothing.
You realize the position you are in right? That's probably why you do it. Setting up Claire as townie completely eliminates any shred of chance mafia could have. Because suddenly there's only three candidates and that means that even with a mislynch town can STILL win. Given that, the whole thing were you insist on Claire while showing absolutely no evidence is pinning you against the wall, because currently there is simply no evidence to build a case on a scummy Claire.

Here's another consideration. You mention how if you were mafia it would have been stupid to fail to lynch Tenma as that would have made you suspicious immediately and led to two scum dying one after the other. But this hypothetical is fallacious for multiple reasons:
- Even while failing to lynch Tenma for town you were still able to set up and apology and avoid suspicion for a bit longer
- Your reality ignores the fact that in doing what you did Tenma, outside of his self-lynch, would have survived one night longer, meaning one more night of three heads as opposed to two (Tenma being obviously a strong player too! Why WOULDN'T you want to keep that upon seeing no one else was hammering and had now come to rely on your vote?)... and then even if it came out scummy as all hell, you could have apologized about it and then had an entire day of making a case against an obviously investigated Tenma in order to re-establish credibility. Extra day, and then an extra night to clean out good townies and get away with possibly winning.

And then the other gem to me is that last line of yours... it's a cute sentimentality but can be so easily read through with a mafia twist to it. A mafia would know who else is scum, and revolve the entire day around discrediting a townie by linking him to that scumbuddy. Then when wanting to show integrity, you say that town votes for one of them and if wrong then you will be the first to lynch yourself.
But how do we know you're not just simply asking us to lynch your scumbuddy? That would mean that he flips mafia, you go "see, I told you guys! Now let's kill Claire since I was obviously on the right path!" and even if it's not as simple as that you put town in a position of doubting a previously considered strong townie while also giving you room for having credibly called out part of the pairing.

Guys, I don't think this should be a question. Everything Kira has spouted today has done nothing to redeem the scummy behavior he has had and has only been intended to poison us against someone that we were fine clearing yesterday. Again, if someone came up, right now and pointed out something specific about Claire that is inconsistent, THAT would be valuable. Because, again, the only logic I can see here when looking at the entire context of how Kira has played the game versus how Claire has played is that Claire has remained astoundingly consistent and water-tight in his opinions, and has done things that would make no sense for a mafia to do (Why would a mafia have chosen to argue against the rising doubt towards Lelouch for example? Explain that to me)

It's not even a contest to me, literally everything Kira has done can be framed as mafia behavior. Meanwhile, nearly nothing Claire has done can be reasoned as such. Call it instinct based on facts or just sheer respect for how solid Claire's game has been, but I just cannot bring myself to doubt him after multiple re-reads. And that's a belief in him that right now shines strong and allows me to see this as a non-issue. There's a possibility I am wrong, but I am nevertheless committing to this view.

Claire being clear to me means Kira, Yuuki and Weevil are the only suspects, and a mislynch today, on the really rare chance Kira isn't scum, means we have our mafia pairing nicely concluded and ready to be lynched.
Other argument: say we have a possibility between Kira, Yuuki, or Weevil. It may be arrogance, but I think it would be wise to decide who between these three would be the most dangerous as mafia, and for me, considering the poison he has been launching at Claire from nowhere, Kira is the obvious most dangerous one. Even if a mislynch, I think we could take as a unit on a Yuuki - Weevil combo far easier than something including Kira, someone who has shown versatility in being present to both start wagons (Sakuragi) and [fail] to end them (Tenmon)

Lastly, I insist on Kakashi not being mafia. It is hard for me to imagine a context in which setting up the rule that we got today would be fair with Kakashi as mafia. Namely because it is virtually impossible for town to win with a Kakashi mafia. No sensible town will ignore scummy behavior taking place right now to go "you know what, instead of following up on how scummy active people are, let's just lynch the auto-hammer"... it'd be incredibly stupid and threaten to neutralize us further.

Also, Kira

if you do flip

thank you for the hint on Yuuki =3
That said though, I don't think it will be a mislynch this time.

But by now I'm rambling.

To those of you holding back because you also doubt Yuuki or you also doubt Weevil, consider this:
1. Even with a mislynch we have enough cleared and active townies to overwhelm mafia.
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Mimi
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Digimon
dang it, poor editing. Whatever. I'm done
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Yoshikage Kira
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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Good god, I do not have time to properly respond to any of this before day's end. Let's bring this loss over with.

Vote Lynch: Yoshikage Kira
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Yoshikage Kira
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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Just sayin': With one person dying, tomorrow there will be 2 mafia votes to two town votes. Good luck with how the mods will decide with Kakashi there.
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Yoshikage Kira
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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Almost forgot.

Unvote

Vote Lynch: Yoshikage Kira
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Edward Weevil
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One Piece
Yoshikage Kira
Nov 3 2016, 08:51 AM
Almost forgot.

Unvote

Vote Lynch: Yoshikage Kira
What are you exactly doing today
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Yoshikage Kira
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Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
Edward Weevil
Nov 3 2016, 09:06 AM
Yoshikage Kira
Nov 3 2016, 08:51 AM
Almost forgot.

Unvote

Vote Lynch: Yoshikage Kira
What are you exactly doing today
Having university all day and because of that not being able to refute any points against me.
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